Comping: So What

[AllanAllen]

we all know this move, and it’s twin barring the 12th and 10th frets.

xx7787

xx5565

But what else can we do, harmonically, over So What?

I know rhythm is very big and useful. But so what goes to 10 minutes sometimes and adding some turnarounds to the where I am might help keep things moving.

[joe2758]

xx3343

xx5565 problem solved

[AllanAllen]

That’s D major, but xx3342 would work.

[joe2758]

That’s D major, but xx3342 would work.

hmm u sure?

[grahambop]

You can move those quartal chord voicings sequentially all through the scale (dorian mode). Also play them on the middle 4 strings. Then you can play harmonised lines with them using every note of the scale, rather than just playing a couple of static chords.

[grahambop]

You can hear me doing a bit of that quartal chord stuff occasionally here, in between the single-note lines.

[AllanAllen]

hmm u sure?

oh, I see that’s a b9 on the B string not the root.

[joe2758]

hmm u sure?

oh, I see that’s a b9 on the B string not the root.

Well it's just a vamp a whole step down, like Tequila. A little tongue in cheek, though it sounds fine. Best idea is Grant's

the xx3342 won't work at all for the modal vibe

[rpjazzguitar]

One possibility is to start with xx223x and move it through the Dorian mode. That is, move each note to the next note in the mode on the same string. So, the next one is xx345x.

Then, move the note on the D string up an octave and play it on the E string. So, xx345x becomes xxx451. And so on, through the mode.

Now, you have the ability to get a consonant voicing with any note in most of two octaves on top of the voicing. So, you can make melody with that.

It'll help, but it will still start sounding stale after a while. So, the question is, where can you take the harmony.

Here's an idea. Suppose you start with x5556x. You could put a B on top, but that might get in the way of the soloist. So you're playing a nice 4th stack. Suppose you then change to x2223x. That's B E A D. All those notes are within D Dorian, so they're not really outside, but the B in the bass may create a hint of bitonality. You're still in D Dorian, but it sounds a little like a key change.

Next, you could consider x899 10 x. F B E A. You might lower the B to a Bb for a moment. So, now you're playing with the difference between D dorian and F major. Fiddling around with that appeals to my ear but maybe not to yours.

Anyway, the idea is to play with different possibilities. Not so far outside the harmony to make trouble, but enough to stretch the ear a little.

Depends also on whether there's another chord instrument.

[grahambop]

Well it's just a vamp a whole step down, like Tequila. A little tongue in cheek, though it sounds fine.

yes you can do that occasionally, it’s the kind of thing Herbie Hancock does now and then.

[Tal_175]

As grahambop said you can move using all diatonic quartal voicings horizontally. Minor 6 voicings would also work

[Mick-7]

Harmonizing scales in 4th chords can help, here's something I wrote a long time ago - see the attached.


Eb Melodic Minor - Eb Major Chord Voicings (voiced in 4ths)

Play over Am7(b5)/D7(alt.)

I combined the Eb Major and Eb Melodic Minor scales, i.e., I added the minor 3rd (Gb/F#) to the Eb Major scale.
This gives us the following scale tones: D-Eb-F-F#-G-Ab-Bb-C.

The following voicings of 4th chords were formed from these notes:

D7#9(sus) Ab(9) D7(alt) D7(sus) Ab6/9 Ab(9) D7b5(sus) D7#9(sus) Ab6/9 D7(alt)

or or or or or
e|--13---13----11----10----8---8----6----4----3---2-----------------------------------||
B|--13---13----11----9-----8---7----6----4----3---3-----8---7----6---6----4----3--||
G|--12---11----10----8-----7---7----5----3----1---1-----7---7----5---5----3----1--||
D|----------------------------------------------------------------6---6----5---4----3----1--||
A|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------||
E|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------||

When two versions of a chord are given, these are the Eb major/minor (major or minor) chord forms, e.g., the first two chords shown, D7#9(sus) and D7#9. Either chord form can be played.

The idea here is to take the IIm7 & V7 chords' essential diatonic chord tones (i.e., their 3rd & 7th) and combine them with the symmetrical chord voicings from an altered scale. To make 4 note chords, add Diatonic or Altered scale bass or melody notes to these triads.

Note: The major/minor chord forms, like the one shown below, are also symmetrical diminished chord forms, and therefore can be moved up and down the neck in minor 3rds, e.g., 4th fret/ 7th fret/ 10th fret, etc.

D7#9
e|--------||
B|---6---||
G|---5---||
D|---4---||
A|--------||
E|--------||

If used in this way, this chord form will contain the notes A & B, which are diatonic to the D Mixolydian (G Major) scale. So if you do want to play these diatonic notes, you can just use chords from the Eb/F#/A/C diminished scale [Scale = Eb-F-F#-Ab-A-B-C-D].

- - - - - - - -

Below is an example of how one can add bass or melody notes to these diatonic and altered triads and use them in a tune: the first few bars of "Little Sunflower." (in the attached file).

[pamosmusic]

You can move those quartal chord voicings sequentially all through the scale (dorian mode). Also play them on the middle 4 strings. Then you can play harmonised lines with them using every note of the scale, rather than just playing a couple of static chords.

Yeah I use quartal triads more though. And I like the inversions. Mostly on the D G B strings. So the first voicing in each inversion would be …

x x 0 0 1 x

x x 5 5 3 x

x x 10 7 8 x

Harmonize the scale with those. And voicings that include B natural are particularly effective.

Planing in m3s or half steps or whole steps is cool but you’ll start losing your place in the form of you’re not careful. Did he hit the B section or is he side slipping?

[James W]

Planing in m3s or half steps or whole steps is cool but you’ll start losing your place in the form of you’re not careful. Did he hit the B section or is he side slipping?

Yeah I think the way Coltrane plays this (technically 'Impressions') exploits what you mention quite a bit. Obviously he never loses the form, but it's just one aspect of the music that's playful, particularly for the listener when the piano and bass drop out, trying to keep in your mind the form...

[pamosmusic]

Yeah I think the way Coltrane plays this (technically 'Impressions') exploits what you mention quite a bit. Obviously he never loses the form, but it's just one aspect of the music that's playful, particularly for the listener when the piano and bass drop out, trying to keep in your mind the form...

oh yeah this is of course McCoys wheelhouse. I should spend more time with it.

[AllanAllen]

Planing in m3s or half steps or whole steps is cool but you’ll start losing your place in the form of you’re not careful. Did he hit the B section or is he side slipping?

This has been my exact problem, sometimes I’ll do a side step and the guys will take it as a signal that I’m in the B section and we’ve settled into following whoever changes, right or wrong, to keep things going.

It’s why I started the thread.

Maybe I’ll try iii vi ii V into Eb to really push the change. Then the side steps won’t be as ambiguous.

[pauln]

D chords...

if you need a rest for a moment this one is good for laying back a little
x 3 3 5 5 3

lower frets, any order
x 5 3 5 3 3
x 5 5 5 6 5
x 5 7 5 8 5
x 5 8 5 6 5
x 7 7 7 8 7
x 710 7 8 7

higher frets, I think these sound better in order
x x 10 10 10 12
x 12 12 12 13 x
x 14 15 14 17 x
x 17 19 17 20 x

Eb chords... you know, up a fret

Your comp can signal to a soloist the shifts between D and Eb chords.
can also just use either one of the first two chords, or reverse them...

D to Eb shift

D... then
x x 13 14 14 15
x x 12 13 14 14
x x 11 11 11 13 (Eb)...

Eb back to D shift
same a fret down

[grahambop]

These are the chords I use, it’s also handy that you can use the whole sequence on other modes of the major scale. (E.g. Lydian chords on Inner Urge).