How do you employ this voicing?

[rpjazzguitar]

x67787

D# A D G B

One usage: a V chord in Em. Resolves better to Em11 than a straight Em, to my ear.

If you think of B as the root it's 3 b7 #9 #5 R or B7#5#9.

So it's also could be (with the bass playing F) b7 3 13 9 #11. That seems conventional enough, but when I put it in the usual places I play F7#11, it doesn't quite fit.

To hear the sound, drop it a half step and add the open low E.

Ideas?

[AllanAllen]

Too hard to grip, I’d never use it on a gig. I don’t like making a D with a finger bar and pinky.

That xx787 part.

[pamosmusic]

Too hard to grip, I’d never use it on a gig. I don’t like making a D with a finger bar and pinky.

That xx787 part.

Yeah I’d use the lowest four strings or the three you have there alllllllll the time.

B7#9 or F13. Either one. Cm6/9

[joe2758]

To E A C# F# B?

[rpjazzguitar]

Yeah I’d use the lowest four strings or the three you have there alllllllll the time.

B7#9 or F13. Either one. Cm6/9

Thanks. I didn't think of Cm69 (actually, the B makes it a majmin69. Which is a melodic minor chord, which means it can cover for any melodic minor chord (per Mark Levine), although some work better than others.

That would suggest, again, per Levine, Cmajmin7, Cm6, Dsusb9, Ebmaj7#5, F7#11, G7b13, Am7b5 and Balt.

I just tried substituting the grip in question for them in some tunes and didn't care for it.

I've seen it used by other players on gigs. Probably no harder than your first barre F seemed at the time.

[paulkogut]

It can take some getting used to, but it's a solid concept that any voicing from the melodic minor scale can be used for every mode of the scale. So that grip can be used for CmMaj7, D7sus4b9, (EbLydianAugmented), F7#11 (G7Mixob6) Am9b5, B7alt


The mini barres can take some work, but offer some good possibilities once you get comfortable. Another good Melodic Minor voicing I first heard used by Vic Juris is (in this key) A Eb G B D (12 13 12 12 10)

You could also check out 3 or 4 note voicings pulled from the larger structures, that could also be moved to different string sets

Best wishes for everyone's music!

PK

[grahambop]

I first came across this chord via Kenny Burrell, he used it quite a bit. E.g. on the second chord of Old Folks on his album Tin Tin Deo.

He does a chordal intro and uses this voicing (at the 4th fret) as an A7#9#5.

[AllanAllen]

Yeah I’d use the lowest four strings or the three you have there alllllllll the time.

B7#9 or F13. Either one. Cm6/9

I was probably too vague. I wouldn’t use that whole grip because the way you grab it bothers my pinky. I would split it up, Christian later says it’s a maj7#11 which is a 5 note chord. I believe that’s too many notes for guitar comping.

Just my taste, I know some people here wish they played piano and everything could be a 10 note chord….

[Mick-7]

The upper structure is a common 4th chord voicing, as in, say....

[rpjazzguitar]

To E A C# F# B?

I tried 0x5775 E G D F# A

[rpjazzguitar]

I was probably too vague. I wouldn’t use that whole grip because the way you grab it bothers my pinky. I would split it up, Christian later says it’s a maj7#11 which is a 5 note chord. I believe that’s too many notes for guitar comping.

Just my taste, I know some people here wish they played piano and everything could be a 10 note chord….

Some players get a lot of sound from well chosen triads.

Here's a video about Toninho Horta's style, which involves a lot of 5 note chords.

[joe2758]

I tried 0x5775 E G D F# A

I was thinking

X77677

[rpjazzguitar]

I was thinking

X77677

That one works. Sounds a bit like a V7 to I cadence. Something like a Balt to E6/9, give or take.

[grahambop]

I remembered I used it here, as the second chord of Tenderly (an Ab7):

[Irishmuso]

The thread Goodbye America? didn't last long! I tried to access it and it came up as 'invalid thread'. 'Nuff said.

[Mick-7]

The thread Goodbye America? didn't last long! I tried to access it and it came up as 'invalid thread'. 'Nuff said.

I knew there is a "goodbye to political opinions" policy on this forum, but I only saw economic policy opinions (including my own) expressed in that thread before it was deleted. The thread topic is an important one to musical equipment providers (i.e., the cancellation of the de minimis import exemption by the Trump administration), and I don't think such threads should be deleted whenever someone expresses a political opinion in them.

[grahambop]

I first came across this chord via Kenny Burrell, he used it quite a bit. E.g. on the second chord of Old Folks on his album Tin Tin Deo.

He does a chordal intro and uses this voicing (at the 4th fret) as an A7#9#5.

I dug out the album and actually he’s playing G7#9#5. So it’s still the same voicing, but down 2 frets (he plays the tune in Eb, I must have learned it in F for some reason).

[PMB]

As it happens, I played that same rootless CmMaj7 (6/9) on a gig this week as a final chord for Lullaby of the Leaves. Incidentally, I prefer to play the G with my ring finger rather than pinky and fret across strings 1-4 with my 2nd finger.

[rpjazzguitar]

As it happens, I played that same rootless CmMaj7 (6/9) on a gig this week as a final chord for Lullaby of the Leaves. Incidentally, I prefer to play the G with my ring finger rather than pinky and fret across strings 1-4 with my 2nd finger.

That's how I do it and how I've seen it done by two other players.

[rpjazzguitar]

I dug out the album and actually he’s playing G7#9#5. So it’s still the same voicing, but down 2 frets (he plays the tune in Eb, I must have learned it in F for some reason).

When the chart says G7#9#5 I think of Db13 played xx3446. b7 3 #5 #9. Which is a classic jazz guitar sound. The bassist probably has a G.

But, this voicing would be x23343. 3 b7 #9 #5 R. Same notes and the bassist still probably has a G.

Despite the fact that the note names are the same, these chords sound dramatically different to me. Different order, 3 and #9 in different octaves.

So, the first one has a classic sound and is likely, depending on context, to make me want to hear a Cmajor sound next.

The second one has a more complex sound and seems to want to resolve more ambiguously.

[Mick-7]

When the chart says G7#9#5 I think of Db13 played xx3446. b7 3 #5 #9. Which is a classic jazz guitar sound. The bassist probably has a G.

But, this voicing would be x23343. 3 b7 #9 #5 R. Same notes and the bassist still probably has a G.

Despite the fact that the note names are the same, these chords sound dramatically different to me. Different order, 3 and #9 in different octaves.

So, the first one has a classic sound and is likely, depending on context, to make me want to hear a Cmajor sound next.

The second one has a more complex sound and seems to want to resolve more ambiguously.

The easiest way to finger this chord is: 1st finger on 5th string (note = B), middle finger on 4th and 3rd strings (notes = F & Bb), pinky on 2nd string (Eb), and ring finger on 1st string (note = G) - I see that PMB already mentioned this. Still, that can be hard to get in and out of, so such voicings are usually used for ballads.

The G on top would be a b5th, so Db13b5 or Db13#11, but the latter should contain the 5th and this voicing does not.

The application would of course depend on where you're going with it.

For example:
|| 0-2-3-3-4-3 || > || 0-1-2-1-3-3 || >> || 0-0-2-1-2-0 ||

[rpjazzguitar]

B7#5#9 is B D# G A D

Common enough chord. My impression is that this pool of notes is usually played with the #9 at the top of the chord, but the voicing we're discussing, puts the root at the top and the #9 in the middle.

D# A D G B = 3 b7 #9 #5 R.

To my ear, it sounds very different than the usual B7#5#9.

One tune that uses it and makes it sound like the perfect chord is Beijo Partido by Toninho Horta. It comes between a B7b5 and an Em11 iirc. The melody note right there is a B.

[rpjazzguitar]

Do you play many chords like this one, rp?

If so, you may be a chordal deviant.

Not sure how to take that.

As far as "chords like this one", one way to classify other chords as being like this one is when they have 5 notes which are not all consonant extensions as in, say, a maj13 chord. Or which have commonplace notes in a non-common order.

Done well, for example, by Toninho Horta or Guinga, it can sound incredible. Not easy to do though because it's hard to hear the advanced harmony and the chords can be difficult to grip.

I was trained more on 4 note chords, but I'm interested in learning more about this style of harmony on guitar.

[pauln]

That is the sound of the chord before and after the highest chord in the turnaround of All Blues if you played it in key of E rather than G.

.... like this...
x 5 6 6 x x
x 7 7 7 x x
x 9 9 9 x x
x 10 11 11 x x
x 9 9 9 x x
x 7 7 7 x x
x 5 6 6 x x
x 7 7 7 x x

x 4 5 4 x x...
x 5 6 6 x x...

turnaround

x 6 7 7 8 (7) <---
x 7 8 8 8 x
x 6 7 7 8 (7) <---
x 5 6 6 7 x

[ragman1]

B7#5#9 is B D# G A D

Common enough chord. My impression is that this pool of notes is usually played with the #9 at the top of the chord, but the voicing we're discussing, puts the root at the top and the #9 in the middle.

D# A D G B = 3 b7 #9 #5 R.

To my ear, it sounds very different than the usual B7#5#9.

One tune that uses it and makes it sound like the perfect chord is Beijo Partido by Toninho Horta. It comes between a B7b5 and an Em11 iirc. The melody note right there is a B.

That seems to say the chord is the rootless B7#5#9 but the melody note is B. Roots are not normally voiced at the top, right? So I had a look in google and look what I found.

I was going to say previously that the chord on the middle strings without the B is an EbM7b5 (I use that M7b5 shape quite a lot) but I left it and went for the B7. Just goes to show.