An old-school way of playing the V chord: not V7, V9, or V13, but a Vmaj6

[brent.h]

Really pretty stuff.

In the key of Bb, that would be plain F6 - F, A, C, D. No dominant 7ths, no major 7ths.

I hear it sometimes in Prez's solos, but I hear it more in the rhythm sections.

An example would be the tune How Am I To Know. AABA. V6 appears in bars 5-6 of every A section.

First recording:

Some nice singing:

Extra: Eddie Lang's sophisticated comping (sometimes he plays a V7 or V9 instead of a V6)

[pcjazz]

I suppose you might think of it as F13(no 7).

[Christian Miller]

It’s interesting how often the dominant function is softened even in early jazz.


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[brent.h]

It’s interesting how often the dominant function is softened even in early jazz. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Lol sometimes they are totally ignored by soloists. Prez often played a vi-7 and/or ii-7. Satch, sometimes would play tonic lines. (Love that they aren't super shackled by changes like how I am sometimes haha)

[Thallishman]

Thank you sharing your insight. I love music like this, but am not knowledgeable in this particular style. But would love to learn more.

How would you voice this on guitar? My feeling tells me 'big chords', triads based. Could give an example maybe for the a-part?

[Mick-7]

Really pretty stuff.

In the key of Bb, that would be plain F6 - F, A, C, D. No dominant 7ths, no major 7ths.

And why will that not just sound like the IIIm7 chord (Dm7) in that key?

P.S. - Actually, all the sheet music of this song online says you are wrong, they all show a V7 chord in the 5th & 6th measures.

[pamosmusic]

And why will that not just sound like the IIIm7 chord (Dm7) in that key?

because it has an F in the bass.

[Mick-7]

because it has an F in the bass.

But it will still sound major or minor, not dominant as indicated on all the sheet music for this song.

For example: How Am I To Know Sheet Music by Tommy Dorsey & His Orchestra | Noteflight

The piano arrangement has a F7+ - How Am I to Know – Jack King, Dorothy Parker [1929 piano/vocal arrangement] | Musescore.com

[Christian Miller]

Imagine, jazz not following the chords on the sheet music.

I'm shocked! Shocked I tell you!

I think the point is that it doesn't have a dominant function even though it's built on V. A bit like the ole "Boomer Dominant."

[pamosmusic]

Imagine, jazz not following the chords on the sheet music.

I'm shocked! Shocked I tell you!

I think the point is that it doesn't have a dominant function even though it's built on V. A bit like the ole "Boomer Dominant."

… scandalized.

Another obvious example would be the I chord is a lot of bebop and pre-bop blueses

[brent.h]

Thank you sharing your insight. I love music like this, but am not knowledgeable in this particular style. But would love to learn more.

How would you voice this on guitar? My feeling tells me 'big chords', triads based. Could give an example maybe for the a-part?

And why will that not just sound like the IIIm7 chord (Dm7) in that key?

P.S. - Actually, all the sheet music of this song online says you are wrong, they all show a V7 chord in the 5th & 6th measures.

Oh ok. I don't wanna spread misinformation since I got it wrong, so is there a way for me to delete this thread?

[pamosmusic]

And why will that not just sound like the IIIm7 chord (Dm7) in that key?

P.S. - Actually, all the sheet music of this song online says you are wrong, they all show a V7 chord in the 5th & 6th measures.

Is he wrong about the recordings he cited?

[Mick-7]

Is he wrong about the recordings he cited?

I only listened to the 2nd video by Jack Miller & The New Englanders, they're definitely playing a V7 chord.

So, the 6th (D) is in the melody, but in two of the recordings they're playing the 7th (Eb) below it, which would make it a V13 chord.

[brent.h]

Is he wrong about the recordings he cited?

Yes, it seems I'm wrong lol.

In the 1929 sheet music, there's an Eb:

- in the chord in bars 23, 27, 35
- in the melody in bar 27

Mick's ears are good! He's quite good at detecting errors.

[Mick-7]

The Ebm^7 to F13 to Bb^7 is very nice, if you voice it like: Gb-Bb-D/Eb bass > F-A-D/Eb bass > Bb-D-(F)-A, you'll have the F6/Eb going to Bb^7. Perhaps that is what you were hearing?

[Thallishman]

I may be hearing this in B part of 'solid as an rock'

Last 8 bar of B part:
| Db | D0 | Ab | Ab |
| Fmin | Bb7 | Eb | Eb7 |
to A-part
(Notation before any of the modulation)