Doesn't every classical guitar tune perfectly?

[kris]

A common cause of not tuning is not accurately positioning the saddle in the guitar bridge.
I"ve had this problem with a few guitars with nylon strings.
I have a friendly luthier who always checks whether the bridge and saddle are in the right place.

[RJVB]

perfect fifths are equal temperament.

Erm, no?! Only octaves are perfect in ET. One of the reasons it's called "equal" is that the error is spread out evenly across the notes inside an octave. Fifths are almost pure, sadly close enough that you can learn to accept them as in tune (but they aren't).

A common cause of not tuning is not accurately positioning the saddle in the guitar bridge.

If it isn't the instrument is probably garbage...

(I was reminded of this thread listening to this week's FV's guitar night yesterday ... had to think to myself that classical singers tune perfectly (or most of them) )

[kris]

Erm, no?! Only octaves are perfect in ET. One of the reasons it's called "equal" is that the error is spread out evenly across the notes inside an octave. Fifths are almost pure, sadly close enough that you can learn to accept them as in tune (but they aren't).




If it isn't the instrument is probably garbage...

(I was reminded of this thread listening to this week's FV's guitar night yesterday ... had to think to myself that classical singers tune perfectly (or most of them) )

My Gibson model Chet Atkins played very well after bridge correction.

[RJVB]

My Gibson model Chet Atkins played very well after bridge correction.

I said *probably*, and didn't bother adding the caveat emptor one could throw money at the problem. I wouldn't on a new guitar that's still under warranty.

(and I'd also call a Gibson "Chet Atkins" a classic at best, definitely not a classical...)

[GuyBoden]

I find it easier training my cat to sing than tuning a guitar accurately.

Guitars can never be Intune all over the neck simultaneously, it's a compromise you have to live with. Or, you can be constantly retuning during songs, we've all seen those players.

[RJVB]

I find it easier training my cat to sing than tuning a guitar accurately.

And that's saying, given how many white cats with 1 or 2 blue eyes are completely deaf

[kris]

I don"t like falsely singing cats and out of tune guitars.

[RJVB]

Well, the solution is simple - get a fretless and you'll no longer be able to blame the instrument

[twtunes]

Do people really think a Beethoven piano sonata sounds out of tune?

Of course fretted instruments can have tuning as pleasing as an equal-tempered piano. But instruments may not have accurate frets. A strobe test of each fret is necessary.

My mandolins, with one exception, were not accurately fretted, with too great a distance from nut to first fret. I removed the nuts and filed off about..01" to get good behavior.

My newest mandolin, from Belvoir Guitars in England, is a joy, in tune everywhere, in all keys. The open string fifths, when tuned to the typical 3 beats in 5 seconds (quite slow, almost unnoticeable) yield excellent intervals and sweet octaves.

[kris]

Do people really think a Beethoven piano sonata sounds out of tune?

Of course fretted instruments can have tuning as pleasing as an equal-tempered piano. But instruments may not have accurate frets. A strobe test of each fret is necessary.

My mandolins, with one exception, were not accurately fretted, with too great a distance from nut to first fret. I removed the nuts and filed off about..01" to get good behavior.

My newest mandolin, from Belvoir Guitars in England, is a joy, in tune everywhere, in all keys. The open string fifths, when tuned to the typical 3 beats in 5 seconds (quite slow, almost unnoticeable) yield excellent intervals and sweet octaves.

I set up my short scale classical guitar to tune close to perfect .
It took a lot of work to achieve this.
I made compensation of nut but first, I placed a precise saddle in the guitar bridge.
I have an uncompensated saddle in the bridge.How to make a precise saddle helped me with a youtube video.

[AllanAllen]

Maybe I don’t want a cheap classical guitar.

[kris]

Maybe I don’t want a cheap classical guitar.

If a cheap guitar is precisely made, you can take a risk.

[Christian Miller]

Maybe I don’t want a cheap classical guitar.

You always get this with forums like this. Some people like to get into the weeds and have the disposable income to pursue the holy grail.

End of the day, if you want to play guitar, it’s better to get a guitar and play it. Set a budget, try before you buy.

Get a Yamaha or smth. It’ll be fine for doofing around. If you want to play classical recitals or exams, you will want something better.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[kris]

You always get this with forums like this. Some people like to get into the weeds and have the disposable income to pursue the holy grail.

End of the day, if you want to play guitar, it’s better to get a guitar and play it. Set a budget, try before you buy.

Get a Yamaha or smth. It’ll be fine for doofing around. If you want to play classical recitals or exams, you will want something better.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Everything depends on what you expect.
I used to not pay much attention to it.
And now, as a mature musician, I get annoyed by out of tune sounds.
I don"t play classical concerts, I just spend a lot of time with classical guitar.
ps.
My guitar was not expensive, it just needed some correction. I forgot, I replaced the machine heads with professional ones.
They cost almost as much as half the price of a guitar.

[GuyBoden]

or smth. It’ll be fine for doofing around

Martin Smith?

£25 used on Gumtree Uk.
Acoustic guitar Martin Smith 3/4 size | in Southampton, Hampshire | Gumtree


Yes, setup properly, it'll probably be "fine for doofing around."

[kris]

Martin Smith?

£25 used on Gumtree Uk.
https://img.gumtree.com/ePR8PyKf84wP...5882b626efc/86


Yes, setup properly, it'll probably be "fine for doofing around."

It is not classical guitar.

[Christian Miller]

Everything depends on what you expect.
I used to not pay much attention to it.
And now, as a mature musician, I get annoyed by out of tune sounds.
I don"t play classical concerts, I just spend a lot of time with classical guitar.
ps.
My guitar was not expensive, it just needed some correction. I forgot, I replaced the machine heads with professional ones.
They cost almost as much as half the price of a guitar.

Yeah I still play my Rodriguez model C. Low end student guitar. Relaxed the tuners etc. it’s been everywhere with me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Tomcat]

If it annoys you then have it checked by a qualified technician / luthier (Turkowiak ?) ?

I had one from him and it was the least "tuneable" guitar I ever heard.

[GuyBoden]

It is not classical guitar.

Sorry wrong Martin Smith guitar:

I really wanted to know what Christian meant by using the word 'smth'?

£25 here:
Acoustic guitar Martin Smith 3/4 size | in Southampton, Hampshire | Gumtree

[kris]

Sorry wrong Martin Smith guitar:

I really wanted to know what Christian meant by using the word 'smth'?

£25 here:
Acoustic guitar Martin Smith 3/4 size | in Southampton, Hampshire | Gumtree

Best
Kris

[Jonah]

I have a friend who is higher level classical player and teacher.

And he is also deep into technical side of the instruments, always checking new instruments, models, luthiers.

Last few years he became obsessed with tuning becausr first of all he came across very well tuned guitars.
He spent quite a lot of time over and he quite sharply says: guitar is not imperfect instrument, you can tune it very well and there is no excuse for bad tuning.

Actually I think guitarists get used to bad tuning and do not hear it… and often do not even try to cover it with phrasing articulation.

I heard world famous players that play instruments that do not tune well over fretboard and it seems they do not notice it

i do not mean temperament, I mean same intervals, unisons, octaves - they should tune perfectly in different positions.

[pcjazz]

I thought they tuned them at the factory.

[Cunamara]

Well-intonated guitars are the exception rather than the than the norm, to my ears. Without an adjustable saddle for each string, it's all but impossible. Archtops with wooden bridges, flattops and classicals are almost always poorly intonated (classical guitars in particular). The 10th interval (root and major 3rd) on the 5th and 2nd strings is particularly vulnerable. String aging, new strings, suboptimal string installation, manufacturing tolerances, seasonal/humidity/temperature changes, etc., all challenge intonation not to mention ineffective tuning strategies. Perfect intonation is probably impossible given the variance between equal temperament and the physics of vibrating strings, but the worst of the problems can be minimized. IME Johnny Smith's tuning method helps; I think there is a thread on that.

The Johnny Smith Stringing & Tuning Method | Mark Wein Guitar Lessons

Johnny Smith: stringing and tuning