Corcovado

[Basshead]

Here we go with these amazing tunes, be great to hear some feedback and if you guys got a different arrangement lets post it!

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[ragman1]

I've got a different spelling :-)

The music's fine. The jumpy stuff's not my bag but the playing itself is pretty good.

[Basshead]

My bad, yeah it is Corcovado (quiet nights), what u mean by jumpy stuff?

[ragman1]

The heavy accent on the 1 of a chord.

[Basshead]

Oh ok cool, how would you play that in order to sound more swing or more brazilian? sure is the one or the one and?

[pawlowski6132]

I've got a different spelling :-)

The music's fine. The jumpy stuff's not my bag but the playing itself is pretty good.

what does jumpy mean?

[pawlowski6132]

The heavy accent on the 1 of a chord.

he didn’t do that listen again

[ragman1]

I don't need to listen to it again. There some unnecessarily heavy/loud accents and gaps that break up the flow. I understand it may be idiosyncratic and his way of expressing it but it's a very smooth tune and doesn't really need that. In my view, of course :-)

[pawlowski6132]

I don't need to listen to it again. There some unnecessarily heavy/loud accents and gaps that break up the flow. I understand it may be idiosyncratic and his way of expressing it but it's a very smooth tune and doesn't really need that. In my view, of course :-)

stupid

[Mick-7]

The heavy accent on the 1 of a chord.

He tends to not hold the notes, pulls them off, which creates a percussive effect that I find unappealing - for this style of music anyway. He did the same thing on Desafinado.

[pawlowski6132]

Here we go with these amazing tunes, be great to hear some feedback and if you guys got a different arrangement lets post it!

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Please don't consider any of the feedback you've gotten so far. You do a very good job with these tunes and I like the bossa nova inspired rhythm.

[Basshead]

Hey thanks mates, no worries, I take all feedback well, it is true that because you are not hearing the groove Im listening to on headphones it might not make sense, plus yeah I like to play it with a latin byte, strong accent on 1 and 3 plus some syncopation, real brazilian players do it much better than me with an amazing feel, even some singers can do these melodies in a million different ways really difficult to mimic on guitar, still learning here

Cheers!

[pamosmusic]

Brother -- I need that diminished major 7 chord on the first beat of bar 7. Help me out, please!

Instead of x x 3 2 1 0, then resolving to the F6 chord ... try x x 3 1 0 0, then resolving to the F6 chord. You won't regret it.

Sounds good though! Nice bright sound on those nylon strings without being tinny. Very cool.

[pamosmusic]

I'm not sure what these dudes are saying about the bass notes.

One thing you might try is keeping the bass-notes at a super consistent rhythm. Like if you're playing bass notes on 1 and 3 and syncopating the chord stabs, maybe try and keep that going. Sometimes your bass notes end up scooting forward onto the upbeats so that they line up with the chord stabs. That can make the time feel a bit squirrelly in spots -- but only a bit. On top of that, keeping that bassline going can help with the illusion of multiple parts, which is always cool.

It's hard to do though.

Love this tune.

[Basshead]

Thanks Peter, I use to play it like that, keeping the bass on 1 and 3 and steady, but it sounds a bit boring to me that way and sounds like country lol, the original book where I got these chord melodies (desafinado too) was like that, with the bass steady, great independence exercise tho!

[Christian Miller]

Thanks Peter, I use to play it like that, keeping the bass on 1 and 3 and steady, but it sounds a bit boring to me that way and sounds like country lol, the original book where I got these chord melodies (desafinado too) was like that, with the bass steady, great independence exercise tho!

The correct way to play bossa is to have the bass on 1 and 3 with a slight accent on 3, with that note being lower or equal in pitch. And trust me, Brazilians are very specific about how these things are done haha.

That said I don’t think you need to stick to that in a solo arrangement provided it feels right, but tbh I’m not feeling it here, it’s a little stilted somehow. The notes are fine.

Maybe sit down with lots of authentic bossa music, work on some legit bossa comping patterns for the style and then come back to the solo arrangement.

This will get you juiced up (hopefully)
João Gilberto - White Album - YouTube


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[Christian Miller]

By the way notice how Joao so often plays a simple one bar pattern with a single syncopation and it sounds incredible … alchemy


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[Basshead]

Sorry Christian but I dont agree, yeah the 1 and 3 and accent on 3 is kinda true but very basic, I played with real brazilians and they dont care about that at all, theres a million ways to play any of these songs and even the same guy cant play it twice exactly the same, some are more groovy/jumpy/funky...some are more traditional like that record you mentioned and everything in the middle, it all depends on how you want to approach the tune, specially solo guitar chord melody. I play bass tho and there you really have to lock with those traditional patterns and accents before you start going any funk/fusiony or you could be in trouble pretty quick

[Christian Miller]

Sorry Christian but I dont agree, yeah the 1 and 3 and accent on 3 is kinda true but very basic, I played with real brazilians and they dont care about that at all, theres a million ways to play any of these songs and even the same guy cant play it twice exactly the same, some are more groovy/jumpy/funky...some are more traditional like that record you mentioned and everything in the middle, it all depends on how you want to approach the tune, specially solo guitar chord melody. I play bass tho and there you really have to lock with those traditional patterns and accents before you start going any funk/fusiony or you could be in trouble pretty quick

I mean 'real Brazilians' you make it sound so rare haha. Or like - gotta watch out for those fake Brazilians. (Probably from Sao Paolo. They still play samba better than me.)
TBF I'm not a biggest expert on Brazilian music although I have studied it somewhat, with Brazilians, lived with a Brazilian guitarist for a while etc. So I feel I can weigh in the basic stuff.

So, sure. There are more contemporary ways to do it (particularly if you are playing with a bass player), and Brazil is a massive country with a rich musical heritage and all sorts of cool grooves yada yada. I'm sorry if I'm being patronising.

OTOH Joao has always got to the classical model of how to do Bossa. I think it's got to be the starting point. Could I humbly suggest that if you feel playing classic Bossa with the 1 and 3 bass comes out like country, that this may be more of a skills issue, as my old roomie let alone Joao Gilberto do not sound like country when doing this - and that this might be something worth working on?

IDK just a thought.

But aside from the bass style, could it be because you haven't internalised the arrangement to the point where it flows? Can you keep it grooving first (and maybe introduce rubato, if desired later?)

I mean the playing is good, you have a solid technique and a nice sound. I think it's just about making it sing.

[ragman1]

Oh ok cool, how would you play that in order to sound more swing or more brazilian? sure is the one or the one and?

Sorry, I missed this, I was busy trying to answer the other guy who thought I was stupid :-)

To sound more Brazilian I suppose it would be a smoother delivery and a steadier rhythm, like gliding or flowing. Actually, I like the way you play, you've obviously got some chops. And, since you're in Spain, maybe more than a bit of Flamenco.

Personally, I think Corcovado's not that easy to play solo. It's easy just to trot out but that's a bit dull. I respect that some of your delivery is putting your own feeling and interpretation into it. You also said there was some kind of groove that we couldn't hear.

Hitting the 1 and 3 quite hard isn't 'wrong' but it can be overdone. Luiz Bonfa used to do it and he's Brazilian. But, as Christian said, Gilberto is probably the man. But you should still do it your own way if that's how you feel.

I played with real brazilians and they dont care about that at all, theres a million ways to play any of these songs and even the same guy cant play it twice exactly the same, some are more groovy/jumpy/funky...some are more traditional like that record you mentioned and everything in the middle, it all depends on how you want to approach the tune, specially solo guitar chord melody. I play bass tho and there you really have to lock with those traditional patterns and accents before you start going any funk/fusiony or you could be in trouble pretty quick

This is good, absolutely. There's another player, Romero Lubambo, who does the most odd things with it

[kris]

One of the best Corcovado take:

[Basshead]

Cheers guys, Ima post another version soon playing faster, more samba feel thing

If you got your own version be great to hear it, hope REG does a cover someday, he will kill it!

[ragman1]

Don't lose the feeling to speed.

[Basshead]

Oh nope, dont get me wrong but I just realize I played that arragement to a loop that was a bit slow and square, I found another one with more swing and better percussion polyrhythm that makes me play it completely different, I get inspired by grooves mostly

[ragman1]