Epiphone "Blak & Blu" Casino - Worst Neck Joint in the History of Neck Joints?

[Rocket Roll]

I've just opened it and gasped. OK, it's a Made in China guitar, but top of the line, the price on the second hand market is way over $1000. USA pickups, 5-ply laminate, Grover tuners, great amount of hype, but look what's under the hood... What to do with this mess?

[Rocket Roll]

I talked this morning with a luthier friend, and he says the easiest solution would be to pour glue into the cavities. Hang the guitar upside down and fill it with glue. I guess it's better than the current state. Just to mention - the guitar is stable as far as I can tell. It's strung with 11's and it holds tuning.

[ArchieHollow]

Whatever you do, be sure to use materials that can be undone, in case there's ever a need for a neck reset. (Such as hot hide glue, which can be a reversible "fix," since the wood parts can be disassembled for any future work.)

[supersoul]

I talked this morning with a luthier friend, and he says the easiest solution would be to pour glue into the cavities. Hang the guitar upside down and fill it with glue. I guess it's better than the current state. Just to mention - the guitar is stable as far as I can tell. It's strung with 11's and it holds tuning.

If it's stable and nothing seems wrong, I don't think I'd do anything.

[ArchieHollow]

I agree with Supersoul. Additionally, if you reinstall the neck pickup it'll hide the hatchet job inside

[deacon Mark]

Glue is not a filler is all I have to say.

[Woody Sound]

Did you open it up for a specific reason, or just to check it out?

[Mick-7]

Was this a used guitar? If so, the neck may have been replaced. It's hard to believe a guitar straight from the factory could have such shoddy construction.

[Rocket Roll]

Did you open it up for a specific reason, or just to check it out?

It's buzzing. It was buzzing for quite some time, and I always delayed opening it because it's a hassle. I had to do it when I first bought it, because the pickups were wired wrong (neck pickup on the bridge controls and vice versa) and the pickup covers were oriented "in reverse". OK, I thought it's odd that the guitar leaves the factory wired like that, but I gave it no second thought.

[Rocket Roll]

Was this a used guitar? If so, the neck may have been replaced. It's hard to believe a guitar straight from the factory could have such shoddy construction.

No, brand new, from the store of the official distributor. Neck joint seems undisturbed from the outside - it's poly finish, so it could not be "touched up" to look so nice, I believe:



Btw, no reply from Epiphone/Gibson so far.

[darkwaters]

Completely unacceptable in my opinion. Shame, because I’m a big fan of Epis (and naturally Gibsons).

[AllanAllen]

If it ain’t broke don’t fix it.

If you can’t stand knowing that’s what it’s like inside, sell it.

[jazzloverfat]

Was this a used guitar? If so, the neck may have been replaced. It's hard to believe a guitar straight from the factory could have such shoddy construction.

Mick, I've seen a brand new Epi 335 that had the centre-block separated from the back - not completely, but on each side there was plenty of space to slide things under it

[Rocket Roll]

If it ain’t broke don’t fix it.

If you can’t stand knowing that’s what it’s like inside, sell it.

Yes, but I can't really do that, now, can I? Suppose I sell it, someone opens it and sees this mess - I'm then a con-man, a fraud who sells broken guitars.

I can't, in my good conscience, offer the guitar in this condition for sale, without taking a significant financial damage.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Yes, but I can't really do that, now, can I? Suppose I sell it, someone opens it and sees this mess - I'm then a con-man, a fraud who sells broken guitars.

I can't, in my good conscience, offer the guitar in this condition for sale, without taking a significant financial damage.

I really admire and thank you for your integrity! But I think the big question is whether they all look like that. Since the exterior shows no signs at all of a reset or reneck, I think it probably came from the factory this way. It's not a full dovetail joint, so leaving the inside roughly hewn like that probably has no effect at all on the integrity of the joint. I don't know what the original Epis looked like inside, but even the Peerless Casinos weren't pristine there. Here's the best shot i could find:



Taking a poly finish like that down to the bare wood and redoing it is a major undertaking that's probably not worth the cost and effort to a high volume manufacturer of relatively low cost guitars. If it wasn't supposed to look like that, they'd probably have scrapped it when they went to install the pickups. If I'm right, they're all probably made this way and it's a non-issue. I certainly wouldn't attempt to fill in the voids. Hide and similar glues aren't very adhesive compared to CA etc. They fill the tiny voids in the irregular mating surfaces, locking them together mechanically. But you won't add any structural strength to the joint by pouring glue in there. The gap is too big for the more adhesive materials like OCP, CA, and epoxy - and you'd never be able to remove the neck in the future, which would seriously compromise the value of the guitar.

My bet is that it's fine.

[Rocket Roll]

I really admire and thank you for your integrity!

Thank you. Do unto others... Guitar cons are way too popular in my neck of woods and I really don't want to offer a guitar for sale without full disclosure.

But I think the big question is whether they all look like that.

I don't know. I found a couple of pictures of MIJ Casinos and I guess this is the neck joint should look like:

But you won't add any structural strength to the joint by pouring glue in there. The gap is too big for the more adhesive materials like OCP, CA, and epoxy - and you'd never be able to remove the neck in the future, which would seriously compromise the value of the guitar..

I've taken the guitar to a luthier friend who initially had the epoxy glue idea - first to pour some epoxy there, while the guitar hangs upside down, just so it penetrates all the potential small gaps and cavities. And then to use wood shims for the bigger gaps. We only had a short discussion - I believe he'll do the best job he can. He'll let me know what he comes up with when he starts working on it.

I'm not really into selling it. Sure, it has a strange neck, feels a bit like 2x4, a short plank. I guess that's because Gary Clark Jr. played Ibanez when he was a kid and he loves that Wizard profile neck. But it doesn't really bother me after a few minutes. Besides, it has a prominent dark tone which is very welcome sometimes.

[Little Jay]

I talked this morning with a luthier friend, and he says the easiest solution would be to pour glue into the cavities. Hang the guitar upside down and fill it with glue. I guess it's better than the current state. Just to mention - the guitar is stable as far as I can tell. It's strung with 11's and it holds tuning.

I would insert thin shims of wood with wood glue. Can’t hurt……

[Little Jay]

If it ain’t broke don’t fix it.

If you can’t stand knowing that’s what it’s like inside, sell it.

To anticipate future problems I would glue thin veneers in the open slots. Just plain white wood glue.

Hell, I actually did that with my DIY 330-copy I ordered from China. Next to my 1950 ES-125 the best guitar I own!

[jazzloverfat]

No, brand new, from the store of the official distributor.
Btw, no reply from Epiphone/Gibson so far.

No option to take it back for a replacement or refund?

Also, don't overthink the selling part. Like you said, it appears fine unless you know what lurks beneath so if it plays well enough flip it, u got no reason to feel bad about it. Not everyone is OCD like us forum lurkers

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

I found a couple of pictures of MIJ Casinos and I guess this is the neck joint should look like:

I thought yours was made in China.

[Mick-7]

Why the tubes, was your guitar just taken off life support?

[Rocket Roll]

No option to take it back for a replacement or refund?

I had a year or two. I actually bought it during pandemic. Too late now.

[Rocket Roll]

I thought yours was made in China.

Yes it is. The picture is just to show how that neck joint should be executed.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Why the tubes, was your guitar just taken off life support?

Those are drains - I had to remove its gall bladder

[AllanAllen]

Yes it is. The picture is just to show how that neck joint should be executed.

That’s a moot point. The Chinese factory did it your way. They’re likely all like that. Just sell it and move on with your life. It’s not a con.