What not to do on a gig

[Christian Miller]

Good grief


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[Boss Man Zwiebelsohn]

Do not suggest to play Autumn Leaves/Les Feuilles Mortes as a waltz in the company of a bunch of manouche Nazis, er, I wanted to say purists LOL.

IMO it worked out very nicely (copyright claimed hereby, TBH the inspiration came from Ived Montands earliest recording) but (French gadjo full of indignation LOL): "You can't do that! That's impossible!"

[AllanAllen]

Do not suggest to play Autumn Leaves/Les Feuilles Mortes as a waltz in the company of a bunch of manouche Nazis, er, I wanted to say purists LOL.

IMO it worked out very nicely (copyright claimed hereby, TBH the inspiration came from Ived Montands earliest recording) but (French gadjo full of indignation LOL): "You can't do that! That's impossible!"

It’s funny what some people draw the line at.

[AllanAllen]

Sounds so easy, but it’s nearly impossible for most guys to do.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

The fact that I don’t question that this actually happened on a gig says a lot. Musicians are not normal.

I’ve always believed that the band (at least groups of 5 or less) should be fed at a large event with food for many guests. When preparing 100+ meals, there’s always enough extra to allow for mishap - and most of that extra goes unused. So I insist on food as part of payment when I’m the leader on such dates.

Musicians don’t all have impeccable manners. At one affair with a huge, beautiful buffet table, the host told the band to feel free to have anything they wanted on our breaks. The keyboard player’s eyes lit up, suggesting the need for supervision. It was a continuous gig, so I stayed on the stand to play solo while the rest of the players ate. The keyboard player ran to the buffet table so fast I thought he was going to body surf it. He swept piles of food onto two dinner plates and sat on the edge of the stage eating as though he’d been starving for days. This did not escape notice.

If you want respect as an artist, your behavior must also command respect. Manners matter.

[Boss Man Zwiebelsohn]

I know one musican who got fired from a big name act for not doing drugs

But it’s not just illegal narcotics… there are some gigs that come with a heavy drinking culture. It’s part of the hang. Players actually practice drunk so they can be steaming and still nail the gig.

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As someone born in and living in the city of the Oktoberfest I see what you are saying.

Many people consider you weird here if you do not like to drink beer. Germany is a culture of alcoholism. But I do not like having headache and beer shit the next morning after. I like me a shot of something pure like vodka before I am singing but that is enough for the rest of the evening. And I could drink if I wanted. I drank Huey Morgan, singer and guitarist of Fun Loving Criminals under the table after our gig at Große Freiheit, Hamburg, during a one week tour with them 25 years ago. But I do not like the effects afterwards. Sometimes I tell people I am a Muslim LOL.

And I do not smoke weed or dope any more because it is not for my mental health although I adored the relaxing aspect it has on the body. So either you hire me for my playing and not being the worst hang without beer and drugs or you hire me not -- I do not mind. I placed an ad recently looking for people to play with and it is also one of the reason I go to a lot of sessions and open stages. I am gonna be my own boss and booker and I will make the rules then.

[pauln]

Sounds so easy, but it’s nearly impossible for most guys to do.

Now days, yes. All people are unique individuals, but subject to the grouping fashions of the times.
Society used to proscribe race, religion, sex, and politics as inappropriate topics. For better or worse this constraint allowed people to present themselves in mutual collaboration without apparent expressed defects.
In the modern world this has been turned upside down. Everyone is expected to hold a set of positions for the various issues of the day and expected to broadcast them to demonstrate their lack of suppressed defects. For better or worse this lack of constraint encourages people to compare each other's asymmetric cross defects in mutual antagonism.

[Boss Man Zwiebelsohn]

Does Duved wear flip flops? I think not.

Do I wear flip flops? Yes. But I have no self respect and not many gigs.


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John Scofield takes his sandals off and plays wearing only socks.

[Boss Man Zwiebelsohn]

oh, there is people like that everywhere. life cant be all bad if you still have someone to look down to.

I did not say I do like that quote but you insist in talking about "cultural realities". The weaker link is always looked down upon.

I finally understood the non-use of the N-word when my Brazilian classmate told me he had been kicked out of the Bavarian track and field athletics squad for breaking the nose of another athlete that insisted repeatedly in using that word.

Years later one of singers of my band, a Nigerian, had a day job at a warehouse of Germany's largest retailer Metro. He had a Turkish colleague who also insisted in using the N-word repeatedly. After being told by my Nigerian friend that he would break the Turk's neck if he would not stop the Turkish guy went to the boss and reported the Nigerian had threatened him physically. The result was that the African was posted away to the cold storage ...

[Christian Miller]

I’ve always believed that the band (at least groups of 5 or less) should be fed at a large event with food for many guests. When preparing 100+ meals, there’s always enough extra to allow for mishap - and most of that extra goes unused. So I insist on food as part of payment when I’m the leader on such dates.

Musicians don’t all have impeccable manners. At one affair with a huge, beautiful buffet table, the host told the band to feel free to have anything they wanted on our breaks. The keyboard player’s eyes lit up, suggesting the need for supervision. It was a continuous gig, so I stayed on the stand to play solo while the rest of the players ate. The keyboard player ran to the buffet table so fast I thought he was going to body surf it. He swept piles of food onto two dinner plates and sat on the edge of the stage eating as though he’d been starving for days. This did not escape notice.

If you want respect as an artist, your behavior must also command respect. Manners matter.

You also get gigs where you have a good relationship with the place you play at - free food and drink provided and you generally keep it sensible. You dep it for one week and realise that the dep has taken advantage and taken the free food an drinks thing as a personal challenge. Things usually go downhill from there.

I mean they can go downhill anyway but that doesn’t help.

I swear to god some musicians seem to have been brought up by wolves.

Or have no conception that being a pub or restaurant owner is a hard gig that is very much about the margins and that we are all on the same team.

At least for catering it’s wastage anyway. But if you really need to doggy bag stuff for whatever reason do it out of sight of the guests or clients … please.

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[starjasmine]

You dep it for one week and realise that the dep has taken advantage and taken the free food an drinks thing as a personal challenge.

I thought my ignorance was "old guy ignorance" but it's actually "Yank ignorance."
Googling "British slang dep" yielded the following informative and entertaining article; Googling simply "slang dep" did not :-)

Of Deps and Depping

(And for those suffering the opposite issue, we Yanks call a dep a "sub" (short for "substitute" player.)

[bediles]

I thought my ignorance was "old guy ignorance" but it's actually "Yank ignorance."
Googling "British slang dep" yielded the following informative and entertaining article; Googling simply "slang dep" did not :-)

Of Deps and Depping

I shot the sheriff, but I should've shot the dep...

[starjasmine]

I know one musican who got fired from a big name act for not doing drugs

But it’s not just illegal narcotics… there are some gigs that come with a heavy drinking culture. It’s part of the hang. Players actually practice drunk so they can be steaming and still nail the gig.

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I can confirm. I got fired from a "Rock en Español" cover band for not drinking enough. That had to be it, because I was nailing the gig, learning* 30 new tunes PER WEEK, including memorizing the expected guitar-hero parts note-for-note. The club was a huge venue with beautiful lights and sound, minimum crowd of 500 who were puking on their shoes by 9 pm, with the band not starting till 10 pm. The band used to get pretty hammered before going on; I'd have a beer, but not much more, because I wanted to play well. I was happy to party with them after the night was over, but apparently that was not enough :-)

*Transcribing my own hand-written charts of every tune but memorizing the solos that I was expected to play "like the record." (For some other tunes, I could improvise.) They did let me use a book onstage, which was crucial, because a couple of these tunes were like 144 bars of I-V-I-V bassline over a single chord, followed by a samba-school-type unison break, then another 160 bars of I-V, then another break... not a "symmetrical" form. My Spanish was not good enough to get the breaks without counting bars. Over time, I began memorizing many of the tunes, but there were a few that I absolutely needed the chart to navigate.

[Christian Miller]

I thought my ignorance was "old guy ignorance" but it's actually "Yank ignorance."
Googling "British slang dep" yielded the following informative and entertaining article; Googling simply "slang dep" did not :-)

Of Deps and Depping

(And for those suffering the opposite issue, we Yanks call a dep a "sub" (short for "substitute" player.)

You’re going to learn to talk proper m8


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[Boss Man Zwiebelsohn]

I shot the sheriff, but I should've shot the dep...

"I shot the sheriff, but I didn't shoot no deputy."

That is what the song is about.

EDIT: Bomberclot, I just learned that Earl "Wire" Lindo died in fall of 2017. He was such a nice guy. May Jah-Jah bless his soul ...

[A. Kingstone]

When I was wet behind the ears (1993) I was playing gigs with Ray Elliott (Tenor/flute) & Alfred Gertler (bass).

Alfred said "whatever is happening on the bandstand, keep smiling". As in, most can't hear mistakes, don't frown at your bandmates.

I just discovered this photo of Ray Elliott who came to America with Them.

[Boss Man Zwiebelsohn]

When I was wet behind the ears (1993) I was playing gigs with Ray Elliott (Tenor/flute) & Alfred Gertler (bass).

Alfred said "whatever is happening on the bandstand, keep smiling". As in, most can't hear mistakes, don't frown at your bandmates.

I just discovered this photo of Ray Elliott who came to America with Them.

Keeping smiling with Jim Morrison on stage was probably not always easy. At least Jimi Hendrix was not amused and Johnny Winter later refused to admit having been part of that jam ...

[A. Kingstone]

Overrated. I hate the Doors.

Ray said Jim Morrison was like a little puppy following them around.

When Ray was asked by Zappa to play on his first album (Ray, along with half of Los Angeles was staying at Frank's) Ray said "no thanks, it's too weird".

[starjasmine]

- Do dress like a professional.

The same site that provides a guide to depping (subbing) also has this definitive article about attire:

Jazz etiquette 2 - dress

[Doublea A]

The same site that provides a guide to depping (subbing) also has this definitive article about attire:

Jazz etiquette 2 - dress

Thanks.

I have taken a lot of heat for my comment here but I stand by it. Thank you for your support


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[Boss Man Zwiebelsohn]

I can confirm. I got fired from a "Rock en Español" cover band for not drinking enough. That had to be it, because I was nailing the gig, learning* 30 new tunes PER WEEK, including memorizing the expected guitar-hero parts note-for-note. The club was a huge venue with beautiful lights and sound, minimum crowd of 500 who were puking on their shoes by 9 pm, with the band not starting till 10 pm. The band used to get pretty hammered before going on; I'd have a beer, but not much more, because I wanted to play well. I was happy to party with them after the night was over, but apparently that was not enough :-)

*Transcribing my own hand-written charts of every tune but memorizing the solos that I was expected to play "like the record." (For some other tunes, I could improvise.) They did let me use a book onstage, which was crucial, because a couple of these tunes were like 144 bars of I-V-I-V bassline over a single chord, followed by a samba-school-type unison break, then another 160 bars of I-V, then another break... not a "symmetrical" form. My Spanish was not good enough to get the breaks without counting bars. Over time, I began memorizing many of the tunes, but there were a few that I absolutely needed the chart to navigate.

You could never pay me enough to make me play in such a note-for-note cover band. I do a lot of covers when busking but I always make the songs my own. Note-for-note covers are the death of creativity. I'd rather work as a bankster which is a thing I would not do if you point a loaded gun at me.

[starjasmine]

You could never pay me enough to make me play in such a note-for-note cover band. I do a lot of covers when busking but I always make the songs my own. Note-for-note covers are the death of creativity. I'd rather work as a bankster which is a thing I would not do if you point a loaded gun at me.

Covers are not what I'd prefer to be doing now, but I've learned a lot about playing in different styles from covering tunes. Oftentimes, that burning guitar solo in a pop tune was improvised by one of the great studio players of the time. I have no disdain for covering Carlton, Luke, Skunk, Parks, Graydon, or ... in other genres .... greats like Pat Martino, Joe Pass, Wes, etc.

There's something to learn and music to be made in any situation. I learned quite a bit about soloing in harmonic minor across the length of the fretboard from one of those tunes. It was impossible to do that solo in a single position. I was very impressed with the fluency and musicianship of the guitarist on that cut.

It was the overall lack of musicianship in that particular cover band that made the gig difficult for me. But I was in financial crisis and this was a steady three-night-a-week gig.

[Boss Man Zwiebelsohn]

The same site that provides a guide to depping (subbing) also has this definitive article about attire:

Jazz etiquette 2 - dress

I play (and/or sing) with a play-for-your-life attitude and sweat a lot on stage. I would not want to spend all my money to have my suit cleaned every week and I would not like to smell like a homeless who hasn't seen a shower for a long time if I did not. So I prefer a T-Shirt and if you play well and/or your show is good no one cares about you wearing sandals or flip-flops in summer -- see Scofield. Someone might say Scofield as someone who played with Miles and many others will never have problems to be booked but do you think Miles hired Sco because he was wearing suit and tie or because he liked the way he played guitar? And I just did a Google image search for Charles Mingus -- there are many photos of him not wearing suit and tie already in the fifties. A tie chokes me which is also not good for singing.

[Boss Man Zwiebelsohn]

Covers are not what I'd prefer to be doing now, but I've learned a lot about playing in different styles from covering tunes. Oftentimes, that burning guitar solo in a pop tune was improvised by one of the great studio players of the time. I have no disdain for covering Carlton, Luke, Skunk, Parks, Graydon, or ... in other genres .... greats like Pat Martino, Joe Pass, Wes, etc.

There's something to learn and music to be made in any situation. I learned quite a bit about soloing in harmonic minor across the length of the fretboard from one of those tunes. It was impossible to do that solo in a single position. I was very impressed with the fluency and musicianship of that guitarist.

It was the overall lack of musicianship in the band that made the gig difficult for me. But I was in financial crisis and this was a steady three-night-a-week gig.

I did never say I have anything about transcribing stuff but playing the same solo note for note every night would bore me to death.

Like in that old Grateful Dead song:

"I would not slave for beggars pay / Likewise gold and jewels"

[starjasmine]

I did never say I have anything about transcribing stuff but playing the same solo note for note every night would bore me to death.

Then don't get an orchestral or pit gig :-)

Any solo by any of the artists I mentioned are so difficult to learn and play that just being able to execute that music is in itself a challenge and a joy - for me, at least. I've never said to myself "oh, here we go with that same old Carlton solo."