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Something else to look into: healthcare costs. The United States does not have socialized medicine like the UK national health plan. I don't know what Ireland has and whether that healthcare system would cover you when out of the country, but here you would have to buy health insurance privately. Or risk being stuck with astonishingly huge bills if you end up needing healthcare without insurance. Eight years ago I was in a cycling accident and spent nearly two weeks in the hospital; my bill was over $900,000. Medical bills are the leading cause of bankruptcy in the United States.
Originally Posted by beetlejockey
I have no desire to discourage you from chasing a dream to play jazz, but as you probably already know it's a hell of a tough way to make a living and in some ways it's harder in New York than anywhere else, because the talent pool against which you compete is enormously deep and wide. on the other hand, you will get exposed to a greater concentration of top level jazz then you can probably anywhere else in the world. Doing what you're doing, trying to be informed, is very wise. More power to you!
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11-28-2025 07:08 PM
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Moving to NYC to play jazz is for trust fund kids.
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^ Or top pros.
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Originally Posted by RyanM
I can assure you, I am neither Originally Posted by Strat-itis
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Yea that is true. I'd say players who specialize in swing and early jazz do not crossover to straighthead or contemporary, there is no need to, they do what they do and get recognized for that. But I noticed that straightahead players started to crossover to swing, I think the reason is simple, those guys have more work. Originally Posted by Christian Miller
Just go to Mona's jam on Tuesday and that's a good indicator what the scene looks like.
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New York City -- where the finest jazz musicians in the world deliver your pizza. Originally Posted by vintagelove
Like @Sully75, I live in Portland, Maine, and we both play sometimes at a session at the Blue club. When my son -- a semi-pro tenor player in Brooklyn -- visits he comes with me. He says that all the sessions in New York are competitive. Blue is a breath of fresh air for himLast edited by Sam Sherry; 11-28-2025 at 09:42 PM.
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Not sure what the OP's intentions are with the move, but he sounds young and carefree. Planning on going for a few months is a great idea. Maybe he'll stay longer. I lived there from '81 to '93. It eventually wore me down, but it was a great experience that I wouldn't trade for anything. It was a blast for a decade. Originally Posted by beetlejockey
So many cultural riches of all kinds. Young and no big expectations? Why the hell not?
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Yup. As long as you can hack it socially and financially, no reason not to. That's the point of life, to do what you want, as long as you don't f urself or others.
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Healthcare is just one more reason that I can't understand why people aren't saying Paris. To me it's the obvious choice.
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One of the main reasons I moved back to Canada after NYC. BUT: the guy said a couple of months. And he's young... maybe anyways. I didn't need any healthcare when I lived there. Originally Posted by sully75
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Probably that’s how it’s ended up here, more a slow move among players. Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
the cultural divide is sort of aging out of the player population. Younger players are into people like Patrick Bartley who will play you the entire history.
And he of course I believe is currently based in New York… so yeah …. Fair enough.
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Originally Posted by sully75
The French healthcare system is among the finest in the world (says someone currently taking advantage of it). And if the OP is indeed from Ireland (and not Northern Ireland), being in the EU is a definite plus for that system. Even as someone who has to pay for it, it is so much better than the system in the USA, where insurance companies, not doctors, dictate your care – and even paying for it, it is far cheaper than what Americans pay, even if they have insurance (co-pay, anyone?).
But as a native New Yorker with many friends who are professional musicians, I can attest that there is so much opportunity to hang and play with other like-minded musicians. It would be a unique learning experience.
And I agree with ccroft's assessment: why the hell not?
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I mean I'm from Long Island and I dunno, living in NY seems like giving yourself psychosis. I appreciate that you can do it, and better to do it when you're young. But be ready for a straight uphill climb.
As per a couple of months...unless you're already absolutely smoking, to me a couple of months might be pretty frustrating. A couple of years might be the right plan. But then you have to worry about actually living in NY. And not sure if you've heard but we are currently not being super nice to people who want to hang here, unfortunately.
I still say Paris is where it's at.
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I don’t know how easy it is to get into the scene coming from outside esp as a non-native francophone. Maybe that’s a stereotype, but my gut feeling is that it might be less accessible than London or Amsterdam. Originally Posted by sully75
I actually find younger Parisians pretty friendly, that said. I’ve always enjoyed playing and hanging out there.
Certainly there’s lots of very cool music coming out of Paris and many world class musicians. I think it’s probably a stronger scene than London, especially it seems to me if you like ‘world’ fusion and of course jazz Manouche. I’m sure the other aspects of the scene are well developed too. Plus travel around the continent is super easy.
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Someone described NYC as having the cult of self actualisation… Originally Posted by sully75
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Very similar experience as me except my time was about ‘80-‘88. If the OP is only going for a couple of months, and has the major obstacles taken care of, it will be nothing more than a longish vacation. It would be a great experience, IMHO. Long term living will require a lot right things to happen, for sure. Originally Posted by ccroft
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One thing to keep in mind is transportation (& the gear). I remember going to my daughter's college graduation party at a midtown rest/bar. Being a performing musician, she would never think of not having a live band. So I'm hanging out in front of the place, and I see the bass player coming down the street trying to carry his stuff, including a good sized cab. I figured he must have come on the subway from wherever, then was walking the rest. Being a young in-shape guy, he was managing fine. I wouldn't have made it more than a block without having to stop.
Last edited by Woody Sound; 11-29-2025 at 11:13 PM.
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I don't know, I've gone there mostly as a luthier, not as much a player. I sat in once at Chopes De Puices, I knew someone who made me play. I was quite rough, I wasn't greeted warmly or coolly, just kind of whatever, which is probably about appropriate. Originally Posted by Christian Miller
People have been friendly about trying my instruments for the most part. I've spent roughly 12 days there 4x since 2019 and made some friends/acquaintances. If I was a better player, I think I'd be more or less welcome at jam sessions. I really appreciate the way french people approach music and guitar. There is a LOT of music going on in Paris and the standards of playing are really high. The manouche players are really eclectic and do tons of non-django stuff but there's tons of straight ahead jazz and you'll see way more American greats there then you will in almost any american city other than NYC.
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A comedian, whose name I wish I could remember, said:
"In New York, no matter how big your bankroll is, you're short".
All the comments about the difficulty living in NYC seem right to me.
But, on the pro-NYC side, is there anywhere else you can hear the same level of playing?
In my youth, I heard Chuck Wayne, Jack Wilkins and Carl Barry playing (together) in a neighborhood bar in Bensonhurst. Jack was on bass. Used to see Dick Hyman playing solo piano at the Cookery in the Village. Donald Byrd at the Five Spot.
In recent years, but before Covid, I heard Strings Attached at the Zinc Bar, several times. Jack Wilkins, Joe Cohn, Mark Whitfield, Vic Juris, bass and drums. The drummer, iirc, was an alumnus of both the Ellington and Basie bands. During the break he told the story of how Freddie Green passed on between sets. Various groups at Dizzy's where the backdrop behind the band looks like an idealized painting of the New York skyline above Central Park, but, in fact, is a big window. Stories of famous players playing to empty rooms. Jams into the wee hours. Robert Glasper at the Blue Note, etc etc.
If you're studying jazz, how can you not want a piece of that? I mean, if you can make the practical side work.
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Visit NYC before you move there.
Here’s more to consider.
Also, being a full time working musician doesn’t mean you are living off gigs. Not anymore. Take some teaching classes at college. That’ll be how you pay the bills with music, if you’re lucky. Learn piano too, most 5 year olds do piano lessons. Oh yeah, you’ll likely be teaching children for the first decade until you make a name for yourself in the coffeehouse paid in tips scene.
Hopefully by the time your girlfriend/wife gets pregnant she’s got her masters or law degree so she makes enough to support you. Better do 70% of the housework, get your mom to show you how to do it now. Happy wife happy life is even more important when you don’t bring in any money and your “job” is being at a bar until midnight.
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I lived in NYC between 1968 and 1978. It was quite cool then, i have no idea how it is now (I have not visited in about 10 years). My 86 year old step-mother lives in Manhattan and tells me it is not safe these days. What American city is safe for an 86 year old woman? Or a woman of any age for that matter?
I played music in the San Francisco/Monterey Bay areas full time for a living from 2005 to 2025. If I did not have a wife with a great job and income paying investments acquired from two prior successful careers, it would not have worked with the high cost of living here.
Last week a first call San Francisco jazz musician called me for a last minute gig (which I turned down). It was a three hour gig for $75 plus tips (and some free drinks). You can make the same money around here working at McDonalds. Screw that. If I cannot get $200 or more, I am not leaving the house with a guitar in hand. And IMO, neither should any self respecting pro level musician (auditions and rehearsals excepted).
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Jazz Legend Lessons
When John McLaughlin first came to New York in 1969, he had no money, no place to stay, and almost no reputation in the U.S. He had only been in the country for a few hours when his hotel phone rang at 4 a.m. On the other end was Miles Davis, whose voice John had never even heard in person. Miles said one sentence: “Can you come to the studio… now?”
McLaughlin rushed across the city with a borrowed guitar, walked into the studio half-asleep, and without any rehearsal was told to start playing. Miles hit record, the band joined in, and the chaotic session became the track “In a Silent Way,” now considered one of the most influential electric jazz recordings of all time. McLaughlin had been in America less than a day and accidentally made history before sunrise. See less
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Well said Originally Posted by vintagelove
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Start somewhere more reasonable like new Orleans or Nashville, work your way up.
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I lived in NYC from 2000 through 2023, and before that from 1987 through 1992.
It would be disingenuous to say I was a "jazz musician" ...as a working fulltime professional musician I took any gig I could get, which means Top 40, musical theater, society orchestra/general business, weird original alternative rock, rap/hip-hop, recording sessions for all sorts of commercials and PSAs, you name it. But I also managed to play some jazz, and get paid for it.
For most of these last ~50 years when I wasn't living in NYC I was living in Boston MA, and tbh I sometimes think the gigging opportunities in Boston were as good if not better than those in NYC. You're less likely there to hook up with musicians whose names you recognize from your LP liner notes, but the music was no less challenging or artisitically gratifying. I suspect the rents might be a little lower than NYC currently...but so are the paychecks.
Also, here's one that might come as a surprise: In 2004 we moved out of Brooklyn and into Manhattan...because real estate was more affordable in Manhattan. Take a look at apartments in Washington Heights or Inwood, the northernmost parts of Manhattan island. People forget that there's more to Manhattan if you go north of Harlem, and since the A train runs express all the way up there, you can get to your gig in a Broadway theater or a Greenwich Village jazz club in <45 minutes.
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