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I would like to think that there are. At my low level in the jazz world, they all want to solo. But few of them fully embrace the bass function in the music. Maybe if I am the leader, and give the bassist explicit instructions... and pay him extra...
(rant over)
(later thoughts) Ah, the heck with it. I'm grateful that anyone wants to play music with me. Jazz music is the best! I just need to learn to enjoy bass solos. Or better, get with musicians who think as I do.Last edited by TF; 11-03-2025 at 09:23 AM. Reason: I disagree with my own post!
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11-03-2025 08:35 AM
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I'm an amateur bass player and don't want to take solos all the time.
Ideally, every 3rd-4th tune during a gig or jam would be enough, assuming it's a tune that is suitable. Bass soloing all the time appears to me to be an artifact of jam sessions; at the local ones I know of they often expect one every time. When someone is sitting in at the jams where I'm the house player then they always want to take one.
My reasoning is:
1. Bass solos can sometimes kill the energy so it's best to save them for occasions where they fit in nicely.
2. I'll be improvising throughout the entire tune (assuming it's a walking line rather than a riff etc.) and the audience can hear it if they wish, so I don't necessarily need to do any more.
3. At jams, some more than others, the horn players may stop paying attention during bass solos and not be ready to come in again (perhaps they get lost?), so I have to do an extra chorus when I might not necessarily be ready for one.
Whilst I'm going on about this I'll mention that another jam issue is that if I specifically request a solo then someone will typically play or sing over it and everyone will forget I asked. If I state that I really don't want to play one then quite often everyone will stop and stare at me until I start soloing, then zone out as mentioned above. Frustrating, indeed.
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Yes there are lots
And you’ll learn very quickly not to complain about the 1.5 jazz players that live within 100 miles of you.
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I'd certainly refrain if there were that few about. ;-)
Originally Posted by pamosmusic
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The guy I play with, a pro, will sometimes shake his head no when I look over for him to solo, it happens. But we're playing 3 hour gigs, a jam night bass player likely practiced all week for his 3 songs and wants to solo too.
If it's a jam night, check with them and see if they want backing, then get those 12th fret inversions ready. Play light, tight and sparse, don't get too cute with accents and lose the beat. Also work something out with the piano if they are there, if they are laying out and hear you come in they might get all 10 fingers over the whole thing. Some guys are just on/off, Oscar Peterson style, LOL. Communication is key up there.
Usually when something is bothering me on stage, I look inward. Why is this bothering me? How can I change the situation to improve it? If I can't do anything, just take a breath, smile and enjoy the music. They worked just as hard as you to get up there.
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Re-reading your post, I'm confused if you are talking about a bassist who is soloing on every tune, or a bassist who is only soloing and not playing any quarter note bass lines. Or are you expecting root fifth iRealPro bass lines and they are playing jazz?
I can't quite grasp the context. Contrary to others, I think this is a good conversation to have here.
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To me, every member of the band has an equal share of everything we do. I love to have the bass play at least a few heads on a gig. It’s great to have the drummer open a tune with a low key, tasteful solo chorus before we come in. The drummers I regularly work with will even tune the toms and snare so they can play some version of the melody from time to time. This is really cool when trading 4s. We may do something like The Way You Look Tonight or Autumn Leaves as a fugue through the head and the first improv or 2.
This kind of interaction in a trio means 3 equal contributors. So we each get a fair share of the spotlight, and the ensemble gets some too. The bass may play the opening head, first improvs, and the last head, with my being mostly support for him and our drummer.
There are tunes in which the drummer and/or bass may decline a solo. Usually it’s either because we’re cooking together so well that a solo would kill the momentum, or it’s a ballad and the beauty of the tune is the focus.
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I play with a bunch of different bassists. All but one likes to solo on every tune. One identifies as an ensemble player, not a soloist and behaves accordingly.
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It can get formulaic if everyone has a solo on every song. I'd rather hear a variety of arrangements.
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At the risk of blowing smoke up my own ass: I am neither an amateur nor a "semi-pro" bass player. I am a retired former pro bass player.
I still play bass regularly (it's still my primary instrument), I just no longer hustle to take any gig I can, just take the ones that I want to. The fun ones.
But throughout my entire career and my post-career retirement gigging, I've waved off more solos than I took.
I don't want a solo on every tune.
I know the audience doesn't want to hear a bass solo on every tune.
And I know that any bass player that does want a solo on every tune -- regardless of whether they are "amateur" or "smi-pro" or retired former pro or currently working pro -- anyone who wants a solo on *every* tune is either an egotistical narcissist, or simply has poor judgement.
Prove me wrong.
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One more thing.
For the most part, bass solos risk boring the audience. One reason is that, during the bass solo, usually nobody is playing the bass line. (Tal Farlow used an octave-down device to play bass lines during the bass solos and some kb players will do it and it only works if the bassist is playing up high). But, if nobody is playing the bass line, the groove is at risk.
Bass solos tend to be hard to hear, particularly in the lower register. Acoustic bass is, depending on the player, particularly difficult to hear. Sometimes it seems to be a low rumble in which you can't distinguish an E from an F. Of course, I'm not talking about Ray Brown.
One leader I played with didn't want any comping behind the bass solos, but I've never met a bassist who didn't want to hear the harmony played fully.
I think it's more difficult for a bass solo to be engaging to the audience than it is for other instruments. If another player leaves some space, the audience hears a cool bass line, but if the bassist leaves space, the audience doesn't hear that.
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50+ year bassist here. I am a semi-pro, playing some concert, rehearsal or session most weeks. Like all the people I play with, I don't expect or want to solo on every song.
Respectfully, I can't say that I agree with that. Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
Bad jazz risks boring the audience. Good jazz is exciting no matter what instrument is playing it.
Respectfully, I can't say I agree with that either. Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
If nobody is playing the bass line then the groove changes. If the musicians work with what's actually happening onstage then something musical happens. If somebody is playing with a phantom band in their head then something considerably less musical almost always happens.
Personally, I want musical accompaniment. I want people to kick me in the ass, to throw ideas at me, to catch my ideas. Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
A handful of times over the years people have left me high and dry, and I've had to say, "Please don't leave me high and dry."
Respectfully, I disagree with that. Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
All the tools in the improviser's pallet are available on any instrument.
Again, bad jazz sounds bad. Good jazz sounds like fun and excitement, and commands peoples' attention.
My consistent experience as an improviser over the past 50+ years is that once musicians build trust with the audience, the audience will follow them far and deep. Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
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There's a hysterical video from the 1980s where bassist Jeff Berlin is playing with Klaus Doldinger's Passport...and it comes time for the obligatory bass solo, and so of course all the other instruments -- harmony, rhythm, groove, like, the entire band (!) -- drops out. And Jeff Berlin looks around like "WTF?!?!" and then points at the drummer and mimics wacking a cowbell or something, he basically points to everyone and tells everyone "Fuck this LEAVE SPACE FOR THE BASS SOLO bullshit, keep playing the fucking groove you morons!" ...and then he solos over the top of the band once they're firing on all cylinders again. Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
I hate that crap when the band lays out for my bass solo. Do I lay out for your solo?
:smh:
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I've been playing for 40+ years , and honestly don't care about solos when I'm playing bass .
For me it's a support role , as with my years playing viola .. it's fine NOT to be in the spotlight.
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As a bassist I am fine with one solo per set, sometimes less, with some harmony to interact with and some more space but not a drop in dynamics to a whisper, unless it's a delicate ballad.
Of course I prefer to pick the tune, and I will always pick the one with the slowest tempo or the coolest chords.
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OMG, you played the viola, too? We offer free therapy here for the pain and ridicule you've suffered from violinists making those cruel jokes about you all your life. Originally Posted by Greywolf
Go ahead brother, this is a safe place where you can unburden yourself and tell us all those viola jokes you've suffered through throughout the years.
If you need legal help to get revenge on those violinists, I'm sure the two SS brothers Stringswinger and Sam Sherry would be glad to help you also..
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My two current fiddles are a compromise , a Realist and Yamaha 5 string electric .
Violin size , I think of them as small viola's with a high E thrown on for the screechy bits.
The Realist is a proper acoustic instrument, the Yamaha is from outer space .. good for fusion gigs.
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I tried searching for the Realist, and only got links to pickups. Is Realist the company, or Yamaha?
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Ah, found them here: Realist Violins | Electric Violin Shop
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I like this post even though I disagree with it - to an extent. A good enough bassist can transcend the limitations I mentioned, but not every working bassist can do it, in my experience. And, some bassists agree with me. Originally Posted by Sam Sherry
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I don't have the choice, I take solos even if I don't want to.
And more, sometimes they want me to take a solo when someone is already soloing.
I don't mind if I don't take a solo since I really enjoy playing and trying lines.
In fact it's not so important.
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Old joke, but ...
An anthropologist is visiting a primitive tribe in the jungle. One night, he hears drums beating in the distance. Concerned, he asks one of the tribesmen what's up with the drums. The native says "Drums OK, but if drums stop - very bad."
The drums beat on for an hour. Still uneasy, the anthropologist asks again if things are OK. Again, the native replies "Drums OK, but if drums stop - very bad."
After another hour, the drums stop. The native stops dead in his tracks and looks up and says "Drums stop! Very bad!"
Scared now, the anthropologist asks what happens next.
The native replies, "Bass solo!"
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Conversational group improvisation is more fun than “soloist backed by rhythm section” model.
Lots of movement/texture from each all the time within the signposts of the arrangement.
Great in the trio format.
Or something…
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I'm principally a trumpet player. (Just a hobbyist on guitar.) When I led a quartet, my bass player would solo on maybe 1/2 the tunes. He would just wave me off with a nod if he didn't want to blow.
But when I played in a trio - trumpet, guitar, bass - we really needed everyone to step up, so our bassist would solo on pretty much every tune.
These were typically 3-4 hour gigs, so you have a lot of time to fill.
So I would think that the answer to the question is dependent on: 1) number of musicians, 2) length of the gig, 3) what the ensemble leader prefers.
For instance, when I see a piano trio performing, the bass player typically gets a few choruses on every tune. But if I see a combo with, say, 3 horns, typically the bass player will get one solo over the course of a set. You have to manage the time.
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