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I played at a local coffee shop using my Digitech TRIO+ routed through a Bose 1 and it sounded like a small combo. People enjoyed it. The owner signed me up for a regular twice monthly gig and she advertised it. Then I invited my friend who plays an upright bass. On the first gig with him as a guitar-bass duo, a guy from a regional restaurant chain approached us and invited us to play locally. So my experience is that a looper (especially the TRIO+ because it has the ability to add bass and drums via responsive BIAB firmware) is better, and live musicians are best. Guitar + bass or two guitars. You have to be conscious of how much space you are using, for sure.
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01-02-2025 12:16 PM
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Playing with backing tracks is certainly limiting. If your chosen style is solo fingerstyle jazz, great. And if you live in an area where you can tap other jazz musicians, that's great too. Otherwise, you have to decide if anyone wants to hear jazz guitar over backing tracks. Maybe. Maybe not.
Those that said time of day and venue were likely the source of frustration are correct. If I had been totally charming and Joe Pass re-incarnate and followed all the advice of our talented and well informed forumites, the ambivalent response would have been the same. You'll just have to trust me on this. As for finding better outlets, that's available but, I believe, requires a different approach. One that I'm not convinced is fun and worth doing.
Finally, it's amazing to me that there are so many great players willing to take time to offer their insights and share how they have progressed in the markets they have available to them. You all make it a pleasure to be part of this group even as an amateur player. Just wish more of you were local so I could come out and enjoy your music.
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When I was in my 20s and pursuing what became a career as a musician for about 10 years (until I moved into data analytics and such), I used to get really irritated (and discouraged) by people talking at gigs. I even noticed that they did it in bars while some of my fave musicians were playing, but it was still discouraging when they did it to me. I wanted to play music that people listened to.
Once after watching a friend play, whom I greatly admired, I noticed the whole bar blabbing away during his set. So, I asked him how he felt about that. He said, "I don't give a **** because I get to play guitar." Not every gig he played was like that, but it was going to happen sometimes. I never forgot him saying that, and have learned to adopt that mindset.
Regarding outlets. It works for me lately to play music for a non-denom church service. I know the congregation well, have played there routinely for 9 years. They give me freedom to play whatever I want. I do it once a month. I play contemporary tunes that fit the theme, Bach pieces, movie soundtrack music, looper improv, or non-looper improv, original music, etc. It's sometimes solo and sometimes I bring a duet partner. It gives me a month to write or learn arrangements, and then I play them. And everyone enjoys it. People will talk quietly during the prelude but are engaged and listening for everything else. Perfect outlet for me.Last edited by enalnitram; 01-02-2025 at 05:17 PM.
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I’m just happy if someone claps at the end of a tune. They can talk all they want.
From a childhood of frog hunting, I can pinpoint where the applauder is and I’ll make eye contact and thank them on mic. I appreciate their appreciation.
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Ah, I looked again at the youtube vid. Andrew is in Oregon, are you there too? I lived in Medford until my parents divorced, while I was in elementary school. I would go back to visit Oregon while I was a teenager. After I started learning jazz as a teen during the 80's, I saw a hot piano trio at a hotel in downtown Ashland. It was called the Mark Antony then, it is Ashland Springs now. The following week, I brought my guitar. They let me sit in for a whole set with them. It was my first time playing any jazz outside of my lessons, and it was a personal triumph. That would be a good gig. Joe Thompson was a family friend and taught at (then it was called) SOSC.
Originally Posted by Bflat233
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I once worked for a bandleader who used to say this if the audience clapped too tepidly: "Come on folks, it is not that hard to clap, though I hear it is hard to get rid of it" There were always a few laughs and the applause always got better by the next tune. Originally Posted by AllanAllen
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That is pretty cool that you played your fist gig in that Hotel. It's a treasure. Originally Posted by enalnitram
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Besides the playing, performance is a lot about the image and the communication too. I have found it really helps to look at the audience, talk between tunes, say something about the music and the songs, generally trying to connect. If you play an entertainment gig, become the entertainment! Also having a small repertoire of easy and well known pop and movie tunes helps, some reggae, blues, variety stuff. Just the connecting part can make or break a gig, and some people are naturally great at that. But never forget, live music is all about connection, whether on an art or entertainment level alike. It is not about ourselves, and once you embrace that outlook, gigging becomes a lot easier and just better. Or at least that's the way i look at it.
When playing solo gigs, i play some tunes solo, some tunes with a looper. Here's my solo pedalboard, cables still a mess (no reverb when the amp has reverb, i add a quilter phantom block if I'm going direct). I use the same board when playing with singers or horn players. Simple and it adds a much needed variety, while still remaining within the jazz idiom of sounds. I can do walking bass, organ sounds, acoustic guitar, easy two track looping (so verse-chorus or percussion and bass/chords). Much easier to make an engaging set like that if you ain't Joe Pass. Besides just looping chords, a very musical challenge can be building up tunes with looped layers.
I personally don't use backing tracks, but they do work and they can make for a very successful long term gig. I also much prefer to play with other musicians even with less money, and most of my hotel and function gigs are duets, but some places will only hire one musician and a solo gig is all you can get.
Also it's very worth it to invest in a decent video promo of your solo playing. It will get you more gigs, so you become better at handling them. This video of a duet we play is home made (hence the mediocre sound, i didn't know better at the time), nothing to write home about, but it brought a lot of gigs! So many musicians i know play that type of gigs and don't have a good promo, which is a shame.
And finally, at some gigs nobody cares, it is a part of the game. You have to decide, you just play, you do it as a rehearsal, you do it for the money, or you stop doing that type of gigs. I don't remember who said it, it was a really famous musician, but they said don't forget every gig could be your last, you might not like the other players but you may never play with such good players again, stuff like that. So i have never taken a gig for granted, and even at the worst conditions i see it as a privilege and joy, i always try to concentrate and play the best music i can, for me, for the other players, for the audience and just for the music!
Last edited by Alter; 01-04-2025 at 09:19 PM.
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Was that your first gig there? If so, keep going back if they'll have you. Put up a poster or something to announce it. You'll build a group of folks that will come to see you over time. If you can, seed the audience with family and friends.
The Digitech Trio pedal is an interesting alternative to backing tracks. My Monday playing buddy has one which he uses for practice (he refuses to gig out any more) and it sounds surprisingly good. I may get one for myself.
My old band (a quintet) found this out with some regular gigs; initially nobody seemed to be paying attention, but after a few months we noticed that the same faces were in the room, listening and even applauding. I remember one gig, as I was loading in my amp and guitar, I was passing by a table and heard one patron say to another "hey, cool, (band name) is here tonight." I was amazed that they recognized me 'cause I didn't think anyone was noticing us, let alone thought that it was cool we were there. But it took repetition- we played that gig for about 5 years. Another monthly gig we had, the room ended up being full of people actually there to hear us. Weird.*
*As a band, we could be really, really good. And really, really bad. Sometimes in the same chorus.
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My first gig with solo guitar ever. I've done a few (like three?) other gigs splitting 50/50 with my saxophone playing. Still over backing. People like the saxophone more even though I'm a bit better on guitar. And I did a couple of gigs with a quartet years back. Not uncomfortable on stage. Originally Posted by Cunamara
I could do more promoting. I could do tunes other than jazz 101 standards. And if I continue to play gigs I likely will. I'm just not liking the backing tracks for gigging right now. Even with good sound quality (Quartet 1 and 2) and a hifi (Schertler) system something about it feels off. Not that I wouldn't enjoy sitting there listening to someone else doing it. Actually, I would. And there is no getting away from backing tracks playing saxophone. On guitar I could mix in looper, something like a Trio, and some easy call/response. I could find a singer. We'll see.
Gigging is important to getting better and to getting out of the house. Lots of good suggestions in this thread for continuing down that path.
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Here's an idea that has worked for me. As some others have mentioned in this thread, it is always good when the customers (and let's face it, they are customers who have come in to get coffee, not to hear music.. especially if this coffee shop doesn't typically offer live music) can connect with a melody that they know. If they hear your jazzy version of a classic or current pop / radio friendly song, they'll likely tune in, or at the very least not seem indignant that you're there. My friend and I did acoustic instrumentals of classic and current hit songs and people absolutely loved it. The great thing is most of these songs are really simple and you can easily embellish them a bit to add your own vibe. Make your own loops or simple backing tracks and maybe create more a cool vibe with the space you're playing in. Doesn't take much to up the cool factor. Just some thoughts....
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But like, what songs? I’m so entrenched in Kenny Burrell, Duke Ellington and Benny Goodman, I have no idea what’s popular. I was never in step with popular tastes. Originally Posted by RetroSound
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I've had surprisingly good luck getting song lists for a given set of parameters from chatgpt. Originally Posted by AllanAllen
Here's what I got just now.
ChatGPT 4o mini
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You said:
what would be a good set list for a jazz band trying to entertain 35 year old people. Not necessarily tunes that only jazz artists play.
ChatGPT said:
ChatGPT
Creating a setlist for a jazz band to entertain 35-year-olds gives you the opportunity to blend classic jazz standards with more modern and recognizable songs that could connect with the audience's tastes. For this age group, it’s key to mix familiar tunes from the '80s, '90s, and 2000s with timeless jazz melodies, as they’ll appreciate both the nostalgic and contemporary vibes. Here's a potential setlist that strikes a balance between jazz improvisation and recognizable pop culture hits:
1. "Cantaloupe Island" – Herbie Hancock- A groovy, funky tune that mixes jazz with a bit of soul. It’s upbeat and can set the tone for the evening.
2. "Take Five" – Dave Brubeck- A classic jazz tune that’s easy for audiences to recognize. The 5/4 time signature makes it a bit unique, but still catchy.
3. "Moondance" – Van Morrison- This song has jazz elements and is popular enough that the audience will recognize it. Its swing rhythm and smooth melody make it a perfect choice.
4. "Smooth" – Santana ft. Rob Thomas- This modern classic has a catchy Latin jazz vibe that would appeal to a wide audience. It’s a fun, energetic track that can get people tapping their feet.
5. "Summertime" – George Gershwin- A jazz standard that has been performed by many artists. It's soulful, relaxed, and familiar, evoking warm feelings and nostalgia.
6. "Just the Two of Us" – Bill Withers- A soulful track with a light jazz feel that’s incredibly recognizable, and perfect for the 35-year-old crowd. It has a laid-back groove that everyone will enjoy.
7. "All of Me" – Billie Holiday- A timeless jazz standard that everyone will recognize. It has a lot of room for improvisation and can be played in a variety of ways.
8. "Valerie" – Amy Winehouse- This track has a neo-jazz, retro vibe with strong soul influences. It’s modern but feels timeless, making it a great choice for a diverse audience.
9. "Fly Me to the Moon" – Frank Sinatra (or a more modern arrangement)- This iconic tune can be transformed in various ways, whether staying traditional or giving it a fresh, upbeat, funky twist.
10. "Billie Jean" – Michael Jackson (Jazz Arrangement)- A funky jazz version of this 80s hit will bring a touch of pop nostalgia. People will recognize the melody and appreciate the jazz interpretation.
11. "Kiss from a Rose" – Seal- A hit from the '90s that blends soul and pop with jazz-friendly chord changes. It's dramatic and emotional, with a lot of room for a jazzy interpretation.
12. "Isn't She Lovely" – Stevie Wonder- A joyful, funky track with a sweet melody. A jazz band can give this one a unique twist with playful improvisation.
13. "Norwegian Wood" – The Beatles (Jazz Version)- A fresh, jazzy take on a Beatles classic. The audience will enjoy the familiar tune with a swing twist.
14. "Don’t Know Why" – Norah Jones- Smooth and soulful, this 2000s hit has jazz influence and will appeal to people who like more contemporary artists with a jazzy touch.
15. "Uptown Funk" – Mark Ronson ft. Bruno Mars (Jazz Funk Version)- High-energy and a crowd-pleaser. This funk-driven tune can be played with a jazz twist, featuring improvisation and rhythmic variety.
16. "What a Wonderful World" – Louis Armstrong- A quintessential jazz standard, this timeless track has universal appeal, and its positivity and simplicity make it a beautiful closing piece.
Setlist Flow Considerations:- Start with a blend of upbeat and funky tracks to capture attention.
- Keep some smooth ballads like "Summertime" and "Just the Two of Us" in the mix for variety.
- Introduce some familiar pop songs with jazz twists, such as "Billie Jean" or "Kiss from a Rose", to keep the audience engaged.
- Finish with something universally loved and emotional, like "What a Wonderful World", leaving a lasting impression.
This setlist should keep the 35-year-old crowd entertained with both nostalgia and unexpected jazz interpretations!
ChatGPT can make mistakes. Check important info.
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You might try taking a listen to the Spotify top 50 (requires an account), or the Billboard Hot 100 (requires you to unblock ads), Apple Music Top 100 (pretty sure you can just listen to clips of anything without an account), or you could just spend some time listening to the radio. Originally Posted by AllanAllen
Start slow. Don't immerse yourself in tunes that you can't stand... just pick a few that actually appeal to you and throw them in. Much of today's ultra-simplistic pop may not appeal to your musical sensibilities on its own; take it as a challenge to work your jazz magic, much like the masters did with Tin Pan Alley tunes that later became GASB jazz standards.
Tunes that are a few years or decades old are fine - everyone will recognize a Beatles tune or two, and Over the Rainbow does always go over well. (It had a resurgence in popularity a few years ago* with the late Izzy,a uke player from Hawaii.)
The bigger the hit, the more people will have heard it; conversely, newer tunes may not have a long shelf life, so you might not want to follow the latest trends too slavishly.
Happy by Pharell Williams was huge about ten years ago, and it is a really simple groove with (IMO) simple but nice changes. You could loop the hell out of that one.
Bruno Mars also does a lot of stuff in the same vein: groove tunes with a dash of soul and sometimes some nice changes.
Add my vote for solo guitar or duo/trio without backing tracks...
* Actually 14 years ago, but this vid has had a staggering 1.4 B views!Last edited by starjasmine; 01-04-2025 at 11:36 PM.
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As starjasmine suggested I'd really follow up on this. What's the age of people that might hear you? Originally Posted by Spook410
Consider movies that might have cross-generational appeal like Casablanca and the Wizard of Oz. As Time Goes By and Somewhere Over the Rainbow.
Saturday Night Fever.
From the movie The Terminal;
Last edited by Stevebol; 01-05-2025 at 10:56 AM.
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Also... Harry Connick Jr. has intro'ed a whole new generation to Ol' Blue Eyes and Connick writes his own tunes in that vein. He also did a disc of Cole Porter tunes.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...gcIA9NtkYRLHCE
Brian Setzer went on from The Stray Cats to doing big-band swing with The Brian Setzer Orchestra.
And Lady Gaga did a nice duet record (or two) with Tony Bennett; some of those actual jazz tunes might be familiar to a younger crowd as a result.
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I really don’t know if people necessarily need familiar tunes. I think again, they’d play Spotify if that was that important .
It’s cool to do, but it’s also not something I’ve ever felt the need to bend over backwards to do.
I feel like some commitment and consistency and fun engaging vibe and people will familiarize themselves with what you want to play.
I also think at a place like a restaurant or coffee shop, your job is not to be intrusive, so playing songs people know and really angling hard for that kind of recognition can maybe be counterproductive.
Or maybe I’m just stubborn
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I've had the experience of playing a Brazilian jazz gig -- all the musicians' favorite tunes -- but unfamiliar to the audience -- and then see the audience come alive when we played the RB chart of Girl From Ipanema. Originally Posted by pamosmusic
I've also had the experience of having audiences seem to like the unfamiliar material. At this point, I like to include some familiar material in my set lists.
That said, I also think that playing with a deep groove goes a long way. Audiences will be much more likely to accept unfamiliar material if they can't sit still because the groove is making them want to move.
As far as the issue of being intrusive -- good point. At a restaurant gig, some people just want to have their conversations and they want the band to be unobtrusive. OTOH, some people are quite willing to be entertained and you don't want to miss that. My solution, if you can call it that, is generally to play "dinner jazz" for the early part of the night. Then, when it's more people drinking than eating, we get more active.
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I would suggest 2 things-
1- dress more high class. You say people like Bluegrass in your area, so they might be expecting that sound when looking at you and then the jazz thing is out of left field. The public doesn't relate to jazz as a contemporary art form these days IMO, but they do see it as an upscale experience. People love to be someplace fancy and expensive listening to jazz. Other than that they don't care about jazz.
2- add a 2nd musician. I know it's probably hard in your area, but try to add a bass player, horn, or singer. Any 2nd person would help. Upright bass would be amazing because it just looks big and important. Even people who don't like jazz get interested in the musical interaction of a group. 2 talented people dressed up and playing nice music will command more respect than a bluegrass looking guy playing to tracks.
And I agree with the others, very nice playing.
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This is why bass is my first call at any and all gigs. People love an upright bass and a horn makes it visually jazz, which is why my standard trio is guitar, bass, trumpet.2- add a 2nd musician. I know it's probably hard in your area, but try to add a bass player, horn, or singer. Any 2nd person would help. Upright bass would be amazing because it just looks big and important.
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I am in the camp that thinks familiar tunes are important to making most gigs work. Like it or not, I have always gotten a better response to Ipanema then say "Look to the sky" or "Gentle Rain". But familiar tunes mean different things when we are talking about 25 years olds vs 45 year olds vs 65 year olds. If the audience is a bunch of 25 years olds, it makes little difference if you play a Beatles tune or a Sinatra tune. Remember, at this point Nirvana is part of the "oldies" genre.
The money has often dictated whether I am on a solo gig or gigs with others. If you are doing music professionally, there should be a living wage for every musician (what that is is debatable, IMO, less than $25 per hour per musician is wrong). If you are an amateur and are playing for dinner and tips, have as big a band as the venue will feed and will fit into the band space. Horns can be loud and annoy patrons who only want background music. Some horn players are good enough to keep the volume down, most are not.
Improvisations should be kept short (one or two choruses per player should be enough unless you are playing for a dedicated jazz audience that likes that sort of thing).
Reading the room is a skill learned with experience, but it is a necessary skill for keeping gigs. Woe be the self absorbed musician who thinks what they do musically is the best thing since sliced bread. It most likely is not, and the prood of that will be losing the gig in short order.
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For what it’s worth … Originally Posted by Stringswinger
I am in the camp that thinks familiar tunes are important to making most gigs work. Like it or not, I have always gotten a better response to Ipanema then say "Look to the sky" or "Gentle Rain". But familiar tunes mean different things when we are talking about 25 years olds vs 45 year olds vs 65 year olds. If the audience is a bunch of 25 years olds, it makes little difference if you play a Beatles tune or a Sinatra tune. Remember, at this point Nirvana is part of the "oldies" genre.
The money has often dictated whether I am on a solo gig or gigs with others. If you are doing music professionally, there should be a living wage for every musician (what that is is debatable, IMO, less than $25 per hour per musician is wrong). If you are an amateur and are playing for dinner and tips, have as big a band as the venue will feed and will fit into the band space. Horns can be loud and annoy patrons who only want background music. Some horn players are good enough to keep the volume down, most are not.
Improvisations should be kept short (one or two choruses per player should be enough unless you are playing for a dedicated jazz audience that likes that sort of thing).
Reading the room is a skill learned with experience, but it is a necessary skill for keeping gigs. Woe be the self absorbed musician who thinks what they do musically is the best thing since sliced bread. It most likely is not, and the prood of that will be losing the gig in short order.
Smells Like Teen Spirit is indeed oldies … meaning that the 45-yo was ten when it came out.
The 65 yo was in fourth grade when the Beatles broke up.
If we’re talking even about Sinatra or Girl from Ipanema or Take Five, you’re playing for a niche audience no matter what the median age in the room is. Unless you’re getting into the over 75 set … and if you’re playing anywhere for the general public, that’s probably not likely. I play a country club that skews quite old and I’d gauge the average age at about 55-60. So for them the Beatles was probably still their parents music. Or maybe their older cousin’s music.
So I sort of feel like trying to pick tunes people know if a bit of a fools errand.
If someone walks up and says “do you know x tune” I’m going to come back knowing it. But that’s a little different.
I feel like reading the general vibe tends to be a little more important than the particular tunes.
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No doubt, picking tunes is a tough call. And it is never a one size fits all kind of thing. Originally Posted by pamosmusic
If I know my audience is a jazz audience, I will still try to pepper my set with standards that they have heard rather than play originals or obscure tunes for the entire set.
And somehow, even 25 years olds react well to Ipanema, Take 5 and Green Dolphin street. I am not sure if that is because they have heard those tunes in the doctors waiting room or if those tunes are standards because they are simply great tunes and people of all ages react well to great tunes (it is probably the latter).
Some musicians want to please the audience and others could care less. A lot of jazz musicians fall into the latter group. I have kept several well paid gigs for over a decade. Being a pro musician takes more than chops. It takes some sales ability and some management ability as well.
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I really need to learn Take Five, Misty, and Green Dolphin St….If someone walks up and says “do you know x tune” I’m going to come back knowing it. But that’s a little different.
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Honestly I think 25 yos react better to jazz stuff than maybe 40-55 yos (yes I’m making these numbers up). Originally Posted by Stringswinger
Anyway … young crowds I think have a somewhat more eclectic musical taste, maybe from being so used to algorithms steering them off into odd directions from the thing they chose. Or from choosing “late night jazz” or “morning vibes” and just spinning a playlist in the background.
the tradeoff is that they might be inch deep mile wide unless it’s something they’re really passionate about (in which case they have the option to play that single track fifty times in a row).
Older folks — I’m 35 and probably the youngest of this group — grew up on radio and music they purchased, so there’s a more inch wide mile deep thing going on.
I don’t think 65 yos have tons of familiarity with jazz, but maybe a bit more lightbulb moments since fly me to the moon and Ipanema would be mom and dads music.
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