Exotic Guitar Scales

[dirkji]

Questions and feedback about this lesson: Exotic Guitar Scales

[MattEg]

Awsome stuff, I wish I had a Guitar and Internet at the same time and place.

[mike_k]

Hi Dirk and everyone else,

Thanks for this cool lesson. I really appreciate the web site.

I have read the lesson and played around with the few scales, but I wondering the appropriate context to try to apply these scales. They obviously clash with some standard harmony, but they appear to offer a lot of room for developing a mature "statement."

Dirk, do you suggest airing these scales out as counter point statements in second choruses? Would you even play them over standard harmony? Would you cut back on the harmonal structure of the tunes (i.e., playing more diads and triads). What about when playing in a solo context? Would you still emphasize the 3 and 5?

Also, when using the exotic scales, would it help to use more exotic rhythms?

Thanks,
Mike

[renema]

Hi everybody,
About these famous "exotic" scales, after reflection, I have decided that they are simply normal modal scales with some "wrong notes" added... After studying the enclosed jpg, I hope that you will agree with me..
Please keep up the good work...
Rene

[mike_k]

Very cool chart. It will keep me busy. It definitely helps put things in context with harmony.

[seanlowe]

Cheers again dirk, another bit of knowledge for the ears to digest. Just wondering where you found these really? Also did you know that there are two jewish scales, one major and one minor, however i have no idea what they are, or if they are related to the jewish scale in the lesson... Anyway again cheers.

[EclecticGuitar]

Nice scales! I especially liked the Gypsy, Romainian and Jewish scales.

I'm just getting into learning some music theory, modes and scales etc., so here is a noobish question. When you say the exotoc scale is major, or minor or dominant, does that indicate which chord forms the exotic scale can be used to solo over?

[dirkji]

When I started playing guitar, I got a book full of these kind of scales. I learned quiet a few back then, don't know what happened to the book though.

Eclectic, when we say a scale is minor, it means it has a b3 (and as you say, can be used to play over minor chords), major has a 3 and dominant has a 3 and a b7. Check out the chord theory tutorial on this site.

- Dirk

[EclecticGuitar]

Originally Posted by dirkji

Eclectic, when we say a scale is minor, it means it has a b3 (and as you say, can be used to play over minor chords), major has a 3 and dominant has a 3 and a b7. Check out the chord theory tutorial on this site.

Thanks Dirk! That's what I thought. Just wanted to be sure I was understanding the terminology. I'll review the chord theory tutorial as well.

[griphon ii]

Renema, I tend to look at exotic scales in terms of your presentation. An improvisational tool, not as pure exotic. Nice list. Really explaining it, could prove entertaining.

[jseaberry]

I think the best use of these scales is to get you to be SELECTIVE in what you play and how you phrase, as just ripping up and down the neck is far less effective in the long run than choosing notes carefully for their sonic relation to one another.

[Gabriel]

Originally Posted by renema

Hi everybody,
About these famous "exotic" scales, after reflection, I have decided that they are simply normal modal scales with some "wrong notes" added... After studying the enclosed jpg, I hope that you will agree with me..
Please keep up the good work...
Rene

Rene, I agree with you however there are a few things you should kep in mind - although a lot of these scales are alterations of standard scales, they aren't "wrong notes", just modes of DIFFERENT scales.

for example "Jewish" is merely Phrygian #3, or the 5th mode of the harmonic minor scale. Really, in the names here are just to give the player an idea of something to visualise as they play them.

You should all try this yourselves too: take a standard scale (Eg: major, harmonic minor, jazz minor, harmonic major [major b6]) and improvise with them over some diatonic changes.
take A harmonic minor for example, try jamming for 5 minutes over a i-V7 (A- E7) progression in the first mode, then locrian #6 (this is mode 2) over ii-7b5 III+ (B-7b5 Caug) progression, for example. Mode 5 is a cool one ("Jewish"). The first and second chords of this mode are major (III-IV = E F )...
And this is ALL comletely diatonic to A harmonic minor!

I hope I'm not rambling on too much, but really, take a few hours to really get to know the sounds of the modes in any scale. It als makes for some interesting jams!

-G

The Guitar Grimoire (Scales and Modes), although not very explicatory, is essentially a large dictionary of many modes and scales in every key.

[renema]

Dear Gabriel,
You are perfectly right to try to practice all the modes of basic major, harmonic minor & melodic minor scales... But further you go in the deepness of synthetic scales, the number of scales to practice becomes huge... I think I prefer practicing 2-3-4-5-6 note arpeggios before going any further... By the way, you can check this funny web page I did about scales at:
Dr Jazz
Sincerely...

[mykalReborn]

hi there!
another beginner on the block. i've read the exotic scales lesson and i have a question.
i'm not really interested in playing jazz all that much :P. or at least not only jazz. i want to play some oriental rhythms on the guitar. something that sounds indian or arabian and maybe a bit jazzier. (i am however interested in anything that has to do with improvisation, so that's why i'm on this forum).
the problem is that the lesson with the exotic scales is to small. i don't really understand how to use them (maybe some chord progressions or something would be good).
for example, the phrygian mode is used in flamenco in a totally different way than one might imagine, and on different chords than one might imagine. learning the scale is not enough.
so my question is: does anyone know of any resources on chord patterns for oriental or "exotic" music? some books maybe or some obscure websites? that would help me a lot. thanks in advance and take care.

[mr. beaumont]

Originally Posted by mykalReborn

hi there!
another beginner on the block. i've read the exotic scales lesson and i have a question.
i'm not really interested in playing jazz all that much :P. or at least not only jazz. i want to play some oriental rhythms on the guitar. something that sounds indian or arabian and maybe a bit jazzier. (i am however interested in anything that has to do with improvisation, so that's why i'm on this forum).
the problem is that the lesson with the exotic scales is to small. i don't really understand how to use them (maybe some chord progressions or something would be good).
for example, the phrygian mode is used in flamenco in a totally different way than one might imagine, and on different chords than one might imagine. learning the scale is not enough.
so my question is: does anyone know of any resources on chord patterns for oriental or "exotic" music? some books maybe or some obscure websites? that would help me a lot. thanks in advance and take care.

often, eastern music will not have chord progressions...in india, the raga is a set series of notes played over a 1 note drone from the tamboura.

[mykalReborn]

opoun searching the web i stumbled on this website: Sounds of India. i found the link on this website.
just thought some people might be interested in this.

[Dennoow]

I find it interesting to use modes in this context, you'll find that a lot of this exotic scales are part of an overall tonality. For instance, the Romanian and Jewish scales are mode IV and V of harmonic minor. The Oriental and byzantine scales are modes II and V of Hungarian minor. The Hungarian minor is a Harmonic major scale with a raised 4th. So I found it pais off to take a scale, find it's modes and harmony.

For anyone interested: I've found a book about this subject recently: Exotic scales, new horizons for jazz improvisation by JP Befumo. contact me on Dennoow@zonnet.nl if you're interested in it (or buy it obviously!). It starts out with the basic major and melodic minor scale and their harmony. After that it pretty much breaks every scale down in 7 chords (modes). It's simple and it saves you a lot of time and energy . You probably won't use all the scales in there but some do sound pretty good. And you might want to try some of them if you're bored Good luck!

Oh and it's still a great lesson dirk!

[Claudi]

Hi, everybody!

About 10 years ago I bought a book of scales by Dave Celentano titeled Monster Scales and Modes which contained some exotic scales among them some of the ones Dirk has given us in this forum. Possibly it's the book Dirk bought.
By the way, visit the youtube and see what Dave Celentano does. Absolutely amazing!

Bye!

[renema]

Originally Posted by mykalReborn

the problem is that the lesson with the exotic scales is to small. i don't really understand how to use them (maybe some chord progressions or something would be good).
for example, the phrygian mode is used in flamenco in a totally different way than one might imagine, and on different chords than one might imagine. learning the scale is not enough.
so my question is: does anyone know of any resources on chord patterns for oriental or "exotic" music? some books maybe or some obscure websites? that would help me a lot. thanks in advance and take care.

A scale comes with everything packaged inside. To master a scale, the first thing to do is:

1. Figure out which chords are available for each degree.
2. Play each chord, resolve it to the tonic chord and improvise over the cadence using the same scale.
3. Later you can combine several chords that belong to the same scale to create progressions.
4. The last step is to alter the chords to expand the possibilities...

Example:

The E phrygian scale (EFGABCDE):

Chords:
Em7 FM7 G7 Am7 Bm7b5 CM7 Dm7
Examples of cadences:

• Dm7 Em7
• FM7 Em7
• Am7 Em7
• Bm7b5 Em7

Examples of progression:

• Em7 Dm7 FM7 Em7
• Am7 Em7 Bm7b5 Em7

Using chord alterations:

• Am7 Em7 B7b5 Em7
  B7b5 uses EFGABCD#E (flamenco scale)
• Am7 C7 F7 Em7
  C7 uses CDEFGABbC (mixolydian scale)
  F7 uses FGABCD#EF (flamenco scale) or FGABCDEbF (lydian dominant)

[JessJazzer]

Thanks for the post I have been looking for exotic scales for ages. Mostly because I've been wanting to play Marty Friedman style Virtuso stuff.

I also know a chinese one but its really simple. Just any 5 note pentatonic will sound like a chinese song.

[arunk]

A few days ago, I suddenly had the urge to "mix" one such scale into rock just to see if it was even possible. The result of such an experiment is can be heard at Rock on - mad lion! « Just thinking out aloud …

The Carnatic Music scale that I have attempted to harmonize one is basically the harmonic minor scale but with a raised fourth (it has a long Sanskrit-base Indian name to it ).

I have no idea how bad my attempt is from western/jazz perspective. It is more of an attempt at a proof of concept w.r.t that particular scale. But if it somehow. some day helps inspire some one to use it in their music, then that would be cool.

Arun