Benedetto Guitars?

[willtheguitardude]

Hey all! I need a little help.
I really like the look and sound of the Benedetto Bambino. I've heard it in videos, sounds fantastic. I just had few questions about Benedetto that I can't find answers to.
-Are they a good brand? Are they good at making guitars? Are they worth the money? (Bambino is $4000)
-How do they compare to other brands?
-Do Benedetto users find any major set-backs or cons with their guitars?
-(For Bambino players) Are you impressed with the Bambino? Is it easy to play? Is it fun to play?
-If you like a different guitar from a different brand, a lot like the Bambino, can you point me to it?
-If you like a different model from Benedetto, can you point me to that as well?
Thanks for your help! Looks and sounds like a pretty guitar, but I just don't know for sure...

[mr. beaumont]

Benedetto instruments are hand made, boutique instruments. You're getting top quality there.

I know one cat who owns a Bravo...pretty sure he'll be buried with it. There's a sometimes member here who plays a bambino, he's raved about it here and on playjazzguitar.com...I imagine he'll chime in.

Benedetto builds "lifers."

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Originally Posted by willtheguitardude

-If you like a different guitar from a different brand, a lot like the Bambino, can you point me to it?

Eastman El Reys -- half the cost of a Bambino. Similar size and idea (hollowbody w/o F-holes).

[PTChristopher]

So, here we go, all "in my opinion":

>>>-Are they a good brand?

Yes. A respectable company and very oriented toward their customers. A "family" business if that means anything to you.

>>> Are they good at making guitars?

Yep. Very good. Solid design and solid implementation.

>>> Are they worth the money? (Bambino is $4000)

That is more complex, and needs a broader view. "$4,000 is the new $2,000" in terms of high end Japanese built archtops. So if a Savannah-built nitrocellulose finish guitar floats your boat,...

>>>-How do they compare to other brands?

It is a large product line - so to stick with the Bambino: It is every bit as good as the Sadowsky Bruno or SS-15. It has a different feature set so the details may draw you to one or another guitar.

>>> -Do Benedetto users find any major set-backs or cons with their guitars?

You'd have to poll a number of players. The guitars are fine.

>>> -(For Bambino players) Are you impressed with the Bambino? Is it easy to play? Is it fun to play?

This is too impressionistic for me to answer in any remotely helpful way. Interesting enough question, but I am not able to usefully respond.

>>>-If you like a different guitar from a different brand, a lot like the Bambino, can you point me to it?

The Sadowsky Bruno and SS-15 are arguable competitors.

>>> -If you like a different model from Benedetto, can you point me to that as well?

Who cares what I like? The Bambino is a great small maple-ply archtop. It competes at a price point that gives a player a HUGE number of choices.

There are the Japanese made Sadowsky and "D'Aquisto" guitars. And a large number of smaller-scale builders who can get you axed for the cost of a Bambino.

If you like US-made, and if you like lacquer, and if you like a little cool archtop cache, and if you like a well designed small guitar that sounds great, then the Bambino will do it.

Is it the only game in town? Nope.

EDIT: I have a Bravo and I love it. I am very unsentimental and will sell anything that gets insufficient use, but the Bravo will likely be here for as long as I am.

[goshawk]

Hmmm... well, Bob Benedetto is a very highly respected designer and builder of archtops... in fact, he wrote the book on the subject. The only issue of which I'm aware with the company is that the recently moved to a direct sales model, which can make it harder to find demo instruments.

I haven't played the Bambino extensively, but I did have a chance to demo a used model locally. In my view, it was just about everything I wanted in a guitar... comfortable, easy to play, warm jazz tone. If price wasn't an object, that's the guitar I would own.

As far as alternatives, there seems to be a lot of choices in smaller, "untraditional" jazz guitars at the moment. Big Daddy mentioned the El Rey series, which is what I play. The ER-2 is probably the closest to the Bambino.

The D'Aquisto Centura Electric is similar in design (D'Aquisto is now made by Aria).

I think you could say that Jim Soloway's guitars, especially the Loon, would fit the bill.

And if you want something really different, look at the Jazz 14 and Jazz Compact by Joe Veillette.

[Patrick2]

Here's my opinon on the matter; I have never seen a Benedetto, any model, that I wasn't completely impressed with as it relates to fit, finish and overall attention to detail. *Most* sound great. (I have heard a few that sounded "only" very good). I've seen quite a few. Here's what you're going to get from a Benedetto guitar, regardless of cost or model, that you will not get from most other, if not all other guitars of lesser notoriety. Firstly, a Benedetto is a Benedetto. It has a certain place in the pecking order, if you will, of being amongst the best of the best. That leads to an intangible level of "joy of ownership" to some . . . not to others. Next . . . you are pretty much assured of not being able to buy a BETTER guitar. You can certainly find different ones that are perhaps as good, or better suited to you personally . . . but, you'll not find a better one. Next . . . . you will not find an arch top guitar that will assure you a higher percentage of your original purchase price if and when you do decide to sell it.

One of the things that make Benedettos as good as they are, other than Bob's skills and talents, is that Bob is a player, and a pretty good one too. The same is true of Jim Soloway. These guy's as players, know and understand what needs to go into the design and build of a crafted instrument, and they settle for nothing less.

Now, with all of that being said . . . only YOU will be able to determine which guitar is right for you. The nice thing about it is, if you do pony up 4 grand for a Benedetto and decide 2 months later that it's not for you . . . you'll probably be able to sell it off pretty quickly and get most of, if not all of your money back.

I am hesitant to make an alternative recommendation for obvious reasons

[Pierrot]

Originally Posted by PTChristopher

.....
>>> Are they worth the money? (Bambino is $4000)

That is more complex, and needs a broader view. "$4,000 is the new $2,000" in terms of high end Japanese built archtops. So if a Savannah-built nitrocellulose finish guitar floats your boat,...

.....

Sorry but just to keep things clear: you are mixing in the same phrase two very different concepts.

High end Japanese would be Ibanez top-of-the-line series, for instance, while Savannah is a very cheap and lowest end Chinese product. No comparison possible, IMO.

[Patrick2]

Originally Posted by Pierrot

Sorry but just to keep things clear: you are mixing in the same phrase two very different concepts.

High end Japanese would be Ibanez top-of-the-line series, for instance, while Savannah is a very cheap and lowest end Chinese product. No comparison possible, IMO.

I think you might have misinterpreted PTChristopher's post. I believe the Savannah he was referencing was the town in Georgia, USA where Bob Benedetto's shop is now located.

[John Link]

I have two Benedettos, Bravo and a Bambino. Both models are the basic professional models and are laminated bodies. All of the wonderful things you may have heard about Benedetto guitars are true in my opinion. They are expensive, but of course from time to time they are available pre-owned at a good discount. My only issue is that you can't put an adjustomatic or compensating type bridge saddle on them because the spacing on the posts is wider than normal. I'm a nut about intonation and both the Bravo and the Bambino come with a non-compensated bridge. You can get the intonation close but not exact. For that one reason, I might lean toward a Sadowsky archtop next time.

[NSJ]

I've only heard very good things about Mr. Benedetto and his guitars. My teacher bought some of his guitars when he first started making them. A couple of years ago, he called Bob and told him about an issue that came up with one of them, and Mr. Benedetto said that he actually makes much better guitars these days than when he started, he would happily personally make him a brand new guitar, as a gift and a token of appreciation of their longtime friendship.

That was very nice of him, I must say.

I bought his book on how to make guitars--wow, I'll never be a luthier, that's for sure. Better stick to playing.

[mattymel]

I was looking at Benedettos as a possibility a while back. While I found them to be extremely well made, easy to play and fine looking, they lacked a little something in the mojo department. Some guitars you just pick up and they seem to play you. I didn't get that from the Benedettos. Striking to look at, but not an inspiration to play (for me).

I had a JH sadowsky for a brief spell as well. Ended up with a vintage Epi that cost a bit more but has it all. I always mention 40s-50s Epi Triumphs as a tremendous value. You can get them for under 3k and they will pretty much hang/blow away any 50s era L5 for 1/10th the $$$. Excellent workmanship AND vintage sound.

[Pierrot]

Originally Posted by Patrick2

I think you might have misinterpreted PTChristopher's post. I believe the Savannah he was referencing was the town in Georgia, USA where Bob Benedetto's shop is now located.

Oooops! I am very sorry, really. Please perdon me, PTChristopher and you all guys.

[Patrick2]

Originally Posted by John Link

I have two Benedettos, Bravo and a Bambino. Both models are the basic professional models and are laminated bodies. All of the wonderful things you may have heard about Benedetto guitars are true in my opinion. They are expensive, but of course from time to time they are available pre-owned at a good discount. My only issue is that you can't put an adjustomatic or compensating type bridge saddle on them because the spacing on the posts is wider than normal. I'm a nut about intonation and both the Bravo and the Bambino come with a non-compensated bridge. You can get the intonation close but not exact. For that one reason, I might lean toward a Sadowsky archtop next time.

Maybe I'm missing something here . . . but, why not just change the bridge base (with the posts) and the saddle to a compensating one???

[PTChristopher]

Hey John Link:

>>> you can't put an adjustomatic or compensating type bridge saddle on them because the spacing on the posts is wider than normal.

As Patrick2 says, this is really an easily solved issue.

A new bridge base and saddle will do it.

So will a new saddle that is compensated and spaced for your current base.

If it were me, I would not go to a metal ABR-1 (or similar bridge) - I'd make an ebony bridge compensated for the strings you use.

Also, since your current base is already fit to the top of your guitar, I would not much bother with a new base either.

I'd just make a new saddle that is set up for your favorite strings, with the post spacing of the base that Benedetto uses.

A competent luthier will have no trouble making the saddle you need.

Chris

[Patrick2]

Originally Posted by Pierrot

Oooops! I am very sorry, really. Please perdon me, PTChristopher and you all guys.

no hay de que . . . para eso estamos! (Oh my Lord!! I hope that means what I think it does)

[Pierrot]

Originally Posted by Patrick2

no hay de que . . . para eso estamos! (Oh my Lord!! I hope that means what I think it does)

Gracias Patrick. Hey!, I can see that your spanish is much much better than my english. Why don't we keep speaking spanish?

OK OK, just kidding.


@OP, (just to come back to the thread):

A good friend of mine has a Sadowsky SS15 and I can tell you it is a very good guitar. Maybe its major highlight is its weitght, as it is very light. It sounds very nicely too and plays comfortably. A good guitar, with no doubt.

But, to be honest, I prefer my guitar, a Jamaica, which is a handmade instrument made by a spanish luthier (Jaen), that costs half the price of the Sadowsky.

What I'm trying to say is that sometimes we (the buyers) pay the price of the celebrity more than the real value of the instrument...

[kris]

Originally Posted by Pierrot

Gracias Patrick. Hey!, I can see that your spanish is much much better than my english. Why don't we keep speaking spanish?

OK OK, just kidding.


@OP, (just to come back to the thread):

A good friend of mine has a Sadowsky SS15 and I can tell you it is a very good guitar. Maybe its major highlight is its weitght, as it is very light. It sounds very nicely too and plays comfortably. A good guitar, with no doubt.

But, to be honest, I prefer my guitar, a Jamaica, which is a handmade instrument made by a spanish luthier (Jaen), that costs half the price of the Sadowsky.

What I'm trying to say is that sometimes we (the buyers) pay the price of the celebrity more than the real value of the instrument...

May be the sound is in fingers..:-)

[oldane]

Originally Posted by Patrick2

Maybe I'm missing something here . . . but, why not just change the bridge base (with the posts) and the saddle to a compensating one???

I agree, but it may be even easier (a new bridge base will have to be fitted to the guitar top).

The standard "Gibson" post spacing is 2 29/32" and this is used on many aftermarket bridges. Sadowsky sells compensated ebony bridge tops with this post spacing for $50. The StewMac archtop bridges are cheaper and has a post spacing just short of 3". If Benedetto still uses the same post spacing as years ago, it's 3". It should thus be possible to keep the (hopefully well fitted) bridge base and just expand the post holes in a new compensated bridge top a little laterally. The holes will then be oblong instead of round, but that will not be visble from just a few feet away.

[ronjazz]

After many years of fighting with archtop guitars, having owned L5s, 175s, Guilds, Ibanez, etc., i finally sat down and made a list of my requirements for the perfect jazz guitar for myself (nobody else). From materials to hardware to scale length, fingerboard width, cutaway depth, pickup type, etc., etc., I came up with a dream instrument on paper, then began shopping, with NO BUDGET limitations; I would spend whatever it took. the one guitar I found, after playing Benedettos, Sadowskys, Eastmans, and on and on, was a Phillips Nouveau 16, designed by Kraig Phillips and made in the Samick plant in Korea. I called him, he had only one left, I bought it, and the day it arrived, I took it on a gig with no adjustments, stock strings and action, and played the gig with it. It was perfect, the band was amazed at the sound and the improvement in my playing, and it has been my favorite 6-string archtop ever since.

$699.00, brand-new.

So you just never know.

[PTChristopher]

A quick opinion/observation on compensated wooden bridges:

[oldane]>>> Sadowsky sells compensated ebony bridge tops with this post spacing for $50.

The compensation on these bridges (one for wound G, the other for unwound G) looks extremely well chosen. Unless you play a remarkably unusual string set, the compensation on these bridges will be more than accurate enough.

[oldane]>>>The StewMac archtop bridges

The "Guild" type bridges that Stewmac sells have a significantly different compensation vs. the Sadowsky wound G bridge, and significantly different from where most string sets will do best. In my opinion/experience, they require some re-work to calm down the over-compensation.

In my experience, the stock Benedetto bridge is far more accurate for most .012 and .013 wound G string sets vs. the "Guild-type" bridge. Interestingly (and maybe coincidentally) when Guild moved to Corona and involved Benedetto, they dropped the old hyper-compensated bridge and went to the same bridge configuration as used now by Benedetto.

For my favorite strings (T-I JS-112) the straight bridge is absolutely fine.

[oldane]>>> expand the post holes in a new compensated bridge top a little laterally. The holes will then be oblong instead of round, but that will not be visble from just a few feet away.

I guess this would work OK, but I have only ever filled the existing holes with ebony (or rosewood to match the bridge), then re-drilled.

OR

Just as effectively - fill the holes in the bridge base, and re-drill and tap new holes with your preferred spacing.

It all works.

[AmundLauritzen]

I've been drooling over the Benedetto guitars for years now and one day I hope to own one.
Most of their 17" guitars seem to average around $20000, so I don't think I'll be able to afford one in this lifetime unless I win the lottery or something.

Still, I frequent their website often just to look at his newest creations. A master luthier. I assume part of the ridiculous price is part of the brand prestige, like with Gibson. Another company building guitars with the same wood would probably sell it for much less. But the craftmanship however, wouldn't come close as you can never replicate a luthiers personality in an instrument even when using the same materials and blueprint.

The insane prices typically makes sure these instruments end up in the hands of upper-middle/upper class day job people more likely to be collectors, who just hang their guitars on the wall having them collect dust.
There's just no way players can afford one of their 17" guitars unless they get an endorsement like Andreas Oberg, Frank Vignola, Bucky Pizzarelli or some of the others in their roster.

So regardless of the companys intentions, their prices make the guitars kind of an elite thing since the only way to get one without selling all your belongings is to be the best of the best so that you can get an endorsement.

Now I'm talking about their high end 17" guitars. I'm sure a lot of people will be happy with the smaller body guitars, but if I'm going to step up my game to Benedetto-level, it's going to have to be a 17".
Just my personal preference.

[oldane]

Originally Posted by PTChristopher

[oldane]>>> Sadowsky sells compensated ebony bridge tops with this post spacing for $50.

The compensation on these bridges (one for wound G, the other for unwound G) looks extremely well chosen. Unless you play a remarkably unusual string set, the compensation on these bridges will be more than accurate enough.

I agree with that. I have a Sadowsky bridge top on two of my guitars (a Painter with D'A 12 chromes and a Triggs Master 400 with 13-56 roundwound bronze). It works very well on both. I do in fact consider also putting one on my older Benedetto Fratello (which has the slanted but straight bridge top). The sharpness of the G string has always annoyed me a little.

[cjm]

Originally Posted by Patrick2

I am hesitant to make an alternative recommendation for obvious reasons

Would you, without making a recommendation, feel comfortable making a frank and honest comparison between the Bambino and any model of say, for example, Heritage guitars that you feel might be suited to the same purpose?

Actually, I'm serious. Everyone here knows that you're in sort of a awkward position and if you just dived into a thread to claim, "The Heritage H5XX is just as good, maybe better, for half the price," then that might be rejected as corporate marketing.

But you haven't done that, and you've been consistently fair about competitors -- you've earned the respect as a forum participant -- and so I think you deserve the opportunity to state the case for your employer -- and I think a lot of players here deserve to hear your take on this before they decide to plunk down some money.

And besides, it wouldn't be like you just barged in with an unsolicited opinion -- you're being asked. Don't hold back nuthin!

[cjm]

Originally Posted by AmundLauritzen

But the craftmanship however, wouldn't come close as you can never replicate a luthiers personality in an instrument even when using the same materials and blueprint.

I think some of the other master luthiers plying their trade today under their own names, learned their craft under Bob Benedetto's tutelage as employees, and that some of the Benedetto guitars available on the used market were built by them.

And I think some of the master luthiers of tomorrow, who will ply their craft under their own names, are today building some of the guitars bearing the Benedetto name.

I could be wrong about that, but I don't think Bob Benedetto carves all the wood and glues all the pieces together on every guitar they crank out. I think it's about design principles and quality control more than it is "magic."

[oldane]

Originally Posted by AmundLauritzen

I've been drooling over the Benedetto guitars for years now and one day I hope to own one.
Most of their 17" guitars seem to average around $20000, so I don't think I'll be able to afford one in this lifetime unless I win the lottery or something.

Still, I frequent their website often just to look at his newest creations. A master luthier. I assume part of the ridiculous price is part of the brand prestige, like with Gibson. Another company building guitars with the same wood would probably sell it for much less. But the craftmanship however, wouldn't come close as you can never replicate a luthiers personality in an instrument even when using the same materials and blueprint.

As Benedetto says very frankly in his book, the right price is the price the market will bear. And Bob Benedetto has indeed been the greatest name in archtop making since Jimmy D'Aquisto died, so he can command high prices.

There's no doubt that Bob Benedetto is an extremly gifted luthier. But so are many others who don't command prices in the Benedetto range. Bob Benedetto is ALSO a very gifted businessman - supported in the business matters by his wife Cindy, who like Bob himself is an outgoing, friendly and accommodating person who through the years has tended the customer relations to perfection. When I recieved my Benedetto Fratello 15 years ago from Bob Bendetto, I wrote to them that they didn't only sell guitars. They also sold dreams. I told them that they kept the dream alive just beautifully during the two year waiting time. They thanked me for the nice words and seemed to agree.

Would I spend that much money on a big name guitar now 15 years later?

No. I have come to the conclusion that I can get just as much for much less from one of the luthiers one or two steps down the ladder - and there are more archtop luthiers now than there were 15 years ago and they are easier to find thanks to the internet. A few top level luthiers - such as Mark Campellone and Jim Triggs - has deliberately chosen to keep their prices affordable though they could likely have driven them up higher. But Bob Benedetto himself, at a point in his career, also chose to make more affordable instruments as well - understandable he wanted to utilize his name to get a piece of that cake. Before that, he only made those high end hand made archtops in his workshop, either alone or with a single apprentice. My Fratello may in fact have been made partly by Dale Unger as he was in the Benedetto workshop when it was made. Some of those apprentices have become luthiers on their own - interestingly often making Benedetto replica guitars just with a different name on the headstock. So Bob Bendettos influence has been immense.

[SOR]

I hav played the Bambino several times and unfortunately found it quite disappointing, particularly for the price. The workmanship was very good (as it should be) but it seemed to lack refinement in both the neck profile and the feel of the controls and switching for a $4000 instrument. On the other hand I found the Sadowsky Semi Hollow to be in a completely different league than the Bambino for the same price, and purchased the Sadowsky without a second thought or regret. Of course you may draw completely different conclusions, but make sure you play extensively before you buy, or have the return option. Good luck.

[willtheguitardude]

Originally Posted by goshawk

As far as alternatives, there seems to be a lot of choices in smaller, "untraditional" jazz guitars at the moment. Big Daddy mentioned the El Rey series, which is what I play. The ER-2 is probably the closest to the Bambino.

The El Rey looks really sweet! If it's truly full hollow, than I am interested. Looks like a pretty versatile guitar as well. Thanks for the suggestion!

[marcwhy]

Originally Posted by willtheguitardude

Hey all! I need a little help.
I really like the look and sound of the Benedetto Bambino. I've heard it in videos, sounds fantastic. I just had few questions about Benedetto that I can't find answers to.
-Are they a good brand? Are they good at making guitars? Are they worth the money? (Bambino is $4000)
-How do they compare to other brands?
-Do Benedetto users find any major set-backs or cons with their guitars?
-(For Bambino players) Are you impressed with the Bambino? Is it easy to play? Is it fun to play?
-If you like a different guitar from a different brand, a lot like the Bambino, can you point me to it?
-If you like a different model from Benedetto, can you point me to that as well?
Thanks for your help! Looks and sounds like a pretty guitar, but I just don't know for sure...

Will,
If you're asking these questions about Benedetto guitars, I will assume you are new to jazz or jazz guitar. I would suggest NOT buying something like this, but starting off with a decent, less expensive hollow or semi-hollowbody guitar (there are TONS of posts here on that topic, but you will find Ibanez, Washburn, etc.). Practice a lot of jazz, learn about your own "sound," learn about what you like in a guitar, and in a few years consider laying down some serious money for a nicer guitar.

Enjoy -- looking is half the fun!

Marc

[willtheguitardude]

Originally Posted by marcwhy

Will, I will assume you are new to jazz or jazz guitar.

I, in fact, am not new to Jazz guitar. Been playing for a while. I'm asking this more for interest on the topic, not to buy one. I have no money as a matter a fact! I just was interested in Benedetto as a future guitar. I just don't know anything about Benedetto.

[goshawk]

Originally Posted by willtheguitardude

The El Rey looks really sweet! If it's truly full hollow, than I am interested. Looks like a pretty versatile guitar as well. Thanks for the suggestion!

AFAIK, the ER-1 and ER-2 are each fully hollow. Eastman classifies the ER-3 as a semi-hollow (I think there's a block under the bridge).

Jeff Hale has posted some nice videos of the El Reys (and the Bambino Deluxe and a number of other guitars) on You Tube. Do a search on J Hale Music.