ZT Lunchbox volume debacle

Atticus · #1 10-20-2011, 10:23 PM

So, I really love my Lunchbox- the tone is great, and it's much easier to transport than my Mustang III (which I have since sold to the other guitar player in the school jazz band).

My issue is volume- for big band stuff, it's perfect. Almost everything we do asks for Freddie Green style, four to the bar playing (readily enforced by our director), and I don't need much volume to do that. When we do rhythm section jamming, and I have to handle melodies or solo, it's just barely there. I've got the gain up halfway, and both amp and guitar volume already at max. Our rhythm section (drummer in particular) is way too loud as a whole and we constantly get told to turn it down, but I still think I could use a bit of a boost for soloing. I need to figure out the best way to do it. External cab? EQ pedal? Nudge the gain up? Buy the drummer some brushes?

Any thoughts from other ZT owners, or other people with suggestions?

SamBooka · #2 10-20-2011, 11:03 PM

I would be inclined to go the ext cab route for the rare occaisions you need it. The alternative would be upgrade to the Club but then you would always have a "larger" amp (as I giggle and look over at my Super Reverb)

I havent actually tried the club out so take my comments with a grain of salt.

Tom Karol · #3 10-21-2011, 07:41 AM

I have a Club, though I use my Henriksen for Jazz. I don't have a Lunchbox, but I did test it. So ...

The Club, which I use with a Tele for Rock, is louder than the Cube 60 that I used to use in that context. I can't imagine a situation I could find myself in where it wouldn't be loud enough. I set the gain on 8 without a processor and on 6 with one. I've never had the volume above 3. Of course, even though it's only 22 pounds, it is still much bigger and heavier than the Lunchbox.

But I agree with Sam: Why don't you try the Lunchbox extension cab? You'd have a cool-looking mini-stack! I think it's only $100, and you could return it if it didn't work out for you.

Also, raise the gain as far up as you can without causing breakup.

That's all I've got!

Dookychase · #4 10-21-2011, 08:19 AM

If you just want to boost the volume for a solo, perhaps a linear power booster would do the trick.

I had one years ago called and LPB1. It worked great. I think they now make it in a pedal form.

Pierrot · #5 10-21-2011, 09:21 AM

The best thing would be to kill the drummer, but, strangely, it's illegal.

Try the ZT club 12, it SHOULD be enough for ANY drummer. (reasonnable drummer, I mean;-)

GodinFan · #6 10-21-2011, 09:38 AM

The OP said the gain is only halfway up - there's still some clean headroom to be had even with the gain up further. Do that first.

Silence · #7 10-21-2011, 11:14 AM

I thought this was pretty important. It might help you with an increase in your volume without adding an extension cab:

ZT Lunchbox huge volume increase with stereo jack in Aux input by Dan the Mullet Guitar - YouTube

kamlapati · #8 10-21-2011, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierrot

The best thing would be to kill the drummer, but, strangely, it's illegal.

Pierrot, you can be in my band.

taxman · #9 10-21-2011, 12:37 PM

If you go to the ZT website and read the instructions for this, I think you will find that they acknowlege that the designers mislabled the gain and volume controls, but didn't realize it until after production started. On the ZT you can set the gain knob high to get higher volume. If I recall correctly, they recommend setting volume knob (traditional gain or drive) to the middle and controlling actual output volume with the gain knob.

Pierrot · #10 10-21-2011, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kamlapati

Pierrot, you can be in my band.

AlohaJoe · #11 10-21-2011, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierrot

The best thing would be to kill the drummer, but, strangely, it's illegal.

I'll 2nd that! Ooooh, pet peeve time!

It is possible for drummers to play appropriately and in time, and the good ones can. If he has good time and tones it down he might turn into a good drummer. If not... ba-bye!

I'd have a talk with the bandleader and encourage him to tell the drummer to tone it down. If that fails, sometimes re-adjusting the seating chart can help, but volume wars (esp too-loud drummers) have ruined many a band. Everybody starts turning it up to compete and the band's overall sound goes to hell as individual players struggle to hear themselves. If the bandleader likes the drummer's volume level, go shopping for an ext cab (or another band).

taxman · #12 10-21-2011, 03:51 PM

This is the article from the ZT website I was referring to:

Minimizing Noise:
The ZT Lunchbox can deliver peak sound pressure levels in excess of 134 dB to a
listener sitting 1 ft., (0.3 m) in front of it. Thus, even boasting an excellent Signal-to-
Noise Ratio of 85 dB, with certain control settings there can still be a residual peak
noise level of almost 50 dB in the near field! This can be quite audible, and is simply a
function of how loud the amp is capable of playing, and the high gain (>4,000) that is
potentially available. (We could have put an aggressive noise “gate” in the circuit, like
many modern amps do, but the tone, touch and sustain of the amp would have been
negatively impacted.)

The key to low noise is to, Keep The GAIN Knob High,
and,
Use the VOLUME Knob To Adjust your sound level!

Yes, we realize now that we probably should have reversed the position of these two
knobs on the top panel. Hindsight is a painful thing! We hope you love the Lunchbox
so much in other ways, that you can forgive us, and get used to the drill. You can,
perhaps, console yourself with the knowledge that you own a first-generation Lunchbox,
sure to be admired by future historians and coveted by amp collectors for all its little

quirks.

Atticus · #13 10-21-2011, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlohaJoe

I'd have a talk with the bandleader and encourage him to tell the drummer to tone it down

This is not a novel concept- everybody tells our drummer to play quieter. I actually noted today you can tell when another percussionist gets off the kit and he gets on by the volume difference. Unfortunately, he's too talented to replace, so we make do.

I'll try fiddling with the controls and see. That article looks a bit outdated- my amp has the Ambience knob instead of the Reverb knob, but I'll try fiddling with my settings and see how loud I can stay clean. Otherwise, I'll probably go extension cab. I'd like to get one eventually anyway, but if I can't get a good volume setting then I can at least justify the expense.

kawa · #14 10-21-2011, 07:02 PM

Use the amp stand, needs and very important for big band guitarist, especialy for compact like ZT-Lunch which has sharp sound directivity.

Settle by cheep cost.

(from my past posts)

Amazon.com: AMP150 Amplifier Stand: Musical Instruments

http://www.ultimatesupport.com/product/AMP-150

Very useful and efective for the stage and sounds pursuit at the home.

Each players always feel the own sounds and prevent the too mutch volume and good for band sounds.

Use the some wood plate for small width amps.

kambor · #15 10-24-2011, 08:44 AM

Actually the zt sounds best when in the ground, don't know why. But yeah, talk seriously with the bandleader, as nobody's irreplaceable.

Silentwiz · #16 10-24-2011, 09:46 AM

Never thought I'd say this one, but I played a blues gig last night and the ZT Lunchbox was not audible above the loud cacophony of another guitarist, bassist, drummer, keys, etc...

I'm trying to figure out what to do -- whether the Club is enough of a step up for this insanity or whether I need more of a traditional tube amp (a la Hot Rod Deluxe or something).

Any thoughts on relative volume between the Cube 80x, Lunchbox, Club and something like the Fender Hot Rod Deluxe or Deluxe Reverb Reissue?

I'd really appreciate your thoughts.

BigDaddyLoveHandles · #17 10-24-2011, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silentwiz

Never thought I'd say this one, but I played a blues gig last night and the ZT Lunchbox was not audible above the loud cacophony of another guitarist, bassist, drummer, keys, etc...

I'm trying to figure out what to do -- whether the Club is enough of a step up for this insanity or whether I need more of a traditional tube amp (a la Hot Rod Deluxe or something).

Any thoughts on relative volume between the Cube 80x, Lunchbox, Club and something like the Fender Hot Rod Deluxe or Deluxe Reverb Reissue?

I'd really appreciate your thoughts.

Didn't some general say "if you want to crack walnuts, bring a cannon?" That seems to be the typical guitarist's approach to jams.

Silentwiz · #18 10-24-2011, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles

Didn't some general say "if you want to crack walnuts, bring a cannon?" That seems to be the typical guitarist's approach to jams.

Seriously! It's fricken ridiculous to have amps turned up all the way, ears ringing, insanity... such a lack of musicality.

It's a paying gig though, so I'm doing my part... ugh!

Tom Karol · #19 10-24-2011, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silentwiz

Any thoughts on relative volume between the Cube 80x, Lunchbox, Club and something like the Fender Hot Rod Deluxe or Deluxe Reverb Reissue?

I am familiar with all of these amps. I submit that the Club is capable of the loudest relatively clean volume of the entire bunch. Whether it's the best sounding of course is up to you.

Silentwiz · #20 10-24-2011, 12:49 PM

I guess I'll order a Club -- thanks for the input.

Pierrot · #21 10-24-2011, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silentwiz

Seriously! It's fricken ridiculous to have amps turned up all the way, ears ringing, insanity... such a lack of musicality.

It's a paying gig though, so I'm doing my part... ugh!

that's it!

jorgemg1984 · #22 10-24-2011, 02:05 PM

For the price and weight of the Club I would look the used market.

Atticus · #23 10-24-2011, 04:36 PM

I've been putting the amp on a stool, but I'll try a bit more direction- I've got a guitar stand that should do the trick, and I need to start bringing a stand with all the songs I double on (I already play bass when the bassist is singing and aux. percussion on some Latin songs that need lots of percussion, might have to start doing tuba for the New Orleans brass stuff if our current 4th bone/tuba player quits). More on the situation as it develops.

TieDyedDevil · #24 10-24-2011, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atticus

This is not a novel concept- everybody tells our drummer to play quieter. I actually noted today you can tell when another percussionist gets off the kit and he gets on by the volume difference. Unfortunately, he's too talented to replace, so we make do.

If your drummer can't play *with* the band at an appropriate volume, he's not very talented. Part of what makes up musical talent is an ability to complement the *rest* of the ensemble.