Jazzed Blues

theot71 · #1 10-12-2010, 09:30 AM

I stumbled across learning material called Jazzed Blues by Mark Stefani and Jazz up your Blues by Frank Vignola (both on truefire TV).

Has anyone else tried these.

Thanks.

docbop · #2 10-12-2010, 10:41 AM

Check out the Mimi Fox materials on TrueFire she covers Blues, II-V's and other common changes.

Gramps · #3 10-12-2010, 12:26 PM

This guys material is good too.

Bebop Blues Comping and Soloing

FatJeff · #4 10-12-2010, 12:42 PM

And this is a good video:

Amazon.com: Don Mock: The Blues From Rock To Jazz: Don Mock: Movies & TV

Reg · #5 10-12-2010, 06:16 PM

You guys need to listen to some players with a little more grease. Their playing sounds like their backing tracks... I'll try and make some samples of blues. You can always listen to old Kenny Burrell, don't need a lot of chops, or old Benson, if your more of a burner, they both have grease.
Check out...
T-bone walker
Russel Malone
Phil Upchurch
Robbin Ford , still pretty rocky.
You can always listen to Ray Charles or the best... Joey De Francesco
Jazz blues is not rock blues or rock jazz
I don't know Mark Stefani, his playing is very professional, his videos seem cool, not greasy. Frank Vignola ...great player... but his thing is gypsy. Don Mock is also great player and instructor , but more from the rock school of blues, I totally dig it but I wouldn't call him a Jazz/ blues player. Mini Fox is incredible... but blues? Maybe part of the problem is great jazz/blues players spend to much time playing to put out videos so you actually have to listen, transcribe, and copy their playing to learn the feel... Greasy... One of my friends has been playing lead tenor for Tower of Power since 2001, I can't remember, he replaced another one of my buds, anyway he's well educated yada yada... covers all types of gigs, but he has grease... and when he takes a blues solo... you know it. I know not much Help... but maybe verbally you might start to hear the difference... Best Reg

derek · #6 10-13-2010, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reg

You guys need to listen to some players with a little more grease. There playing sounds like their backing tracks... I'll try and make some samples of blues. You can always listen to old Kenny Burrell, don't need a lot of chops, or old Benson, if your more of a burner, they both have grease.
Check out...
T-bone walker
Russel Malone
Phil Upchurch
Robbin Ford , still pretty rocky.
You can always listen to Ray Charles or the best... Joey De Francesco
Jazz blues is not rock blues or rock jazz
I don't know Mark Stefani, his playing is very professional, his videos seem cool, not greasy. Frank Vignola ...great player... but his thing is gypsy. Don Mock is also great player and instructor , but more from the rock school of blues, I totally dig it but I wouldn't call him a Jazz/ blues player. Mini Fox is incredible... but blues? Maybe part of the problem is great jazz/blues players spend to much time playing to put out videos so you actually have to listen, transcribe, and copy their playing to learn the feel... Greasy... One of my friends has been playing lead tenor for Tower of Power since 2001, I can't remember, he replaced another one of my buds, anyway he's well educated yada yada... covers all types of gigs, but he has grease... and when he takes a blues solo... you know it. I know not much Help... but maybe verbally you might start to hear the difference... Best Reg

I agree. While I like Wes, Joe P's and Martino's take on the blues, they definitely are smoother in a jazzy sort of way. It is tough to sound really bluesy on a jazz blues. Russ Malone certainly has it, as does Phil. Robben is really in a class by himself imo. I would also toss Sco into that mix. His tribute to Ray Charles showcased his bluesier side. Maybe some Grant Green.

docbop · #7 10-13-2010, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reg

You guys need to listen to some players with a little more grease. There playing sounds like their backing tracks... I'll try and make some samples of blues. You can always listen to old Kenny Burrell, don't need a lot of chops, or old Benson, if your more of a burner, they both have grease.
Check out...
T-bone walker
Russel Malone
Phil Upchurch
Robbin Ford , still pretty rocky.
You can always listen to Ray Charles or the best... Joey De Francesco
Jazz blues is not rock blues or rock jazz
I don't know Mark Stefani, his playing is very professional, his videos seem cool, not greasy. Frank Vignola ...great player... but his thing is gypsy. Don Mock is also great player and instructor , but more from the rock school of blues, I totally dig it but I wouldn't call him a Jazz/ blues player. Mini Fox is incredible... but blues? Maybe part of the problem is great jazz/blues players spend to much time playing to put out videos so you actually have to listen, transcribe, and copy their playing to learn the feel... Greasy... One of my friends has been playing lead tenor for Tower of Power since 2001, I can't remember, he replaced another one of my buds, anyway he's well educated yada yada... covers all types of gigs, but he has grease... and when he takes a blues solo... you know it. I know not much Help... but maybe verbally you might start to hear the difference... Best Reg

I would say your comparing Apples and Oranges, Jazz blues and traditional Blues are two different things and shouldn't be compared IMO.

rvf263 · #8 10-13-2010, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theot71

I stumbled across learning material called Jazzed Blues by Mark Stefani and Jazz up your Blues by Frank Vignola (both on truefire TV).

Has anyone else tried these.

Thanks.

I bought the Jazz up your Blues because I joined, had a coupon and it was cheaper.
I'm not real impressed with it. Seems like it starts off in the middle of something so I feel like I'm missing the beginning. I don't get it. Maybe I am missing something.

The TrueFire website seems cool though and has alot of info it seems.

wendkos · #9 10-14-2010, 01:08 AM

Hello all. I'm brad from TrueFire. someone just emailed me a link to this thread and so i popped in, had a look around the forum, dug the vibe and just registered. this is my first post here!

We're building our jazz catalog and always out looking for feedback and suggestions for improving our work. naturally, the positive remarks are always great to hear but the constructive criticisms are where we learn the most.

First and foremost... rvf263, sorry to hear that you are disappointed with Jazz Up Your Blues. We'll happily refund your money, no questions asked. email info@truefire.com and consider it done!

The Jazz Up Your Blues course is a bit advanced and does pick up where our other jazzed blues courses end and so this might be the issue? Check out Jazzed Blues and Assembly Lines though as these might be a better selection for you?

re: Mimi - we just finished Mimi's fourth course, Jazz Performance which punctuates and illustrates all of the key learnings in her previous three courses: Jazz Anatomy, Graduated Solos and Flying Solo. This new one will be out in next couple of months.

re: Vignola - while he is not known as a jazzed blues player, he can certainly play the stuff thanks to a pedigree of playing sideman to so many great players. But yes, gypsy jazz is up his alley and you might want to check out Gypsy Jazz Duo, a course he did with Andreas Oberg. The right hand and picking lessons alone are worth the price of admission if you're into the gypsy thing.

I'm thinking twice about writing the next section as I may be overstepping my bounds as a newbie here BUT you might actually appreciate the opportunity...

We're currently running a thing where you can access ALL of video lessons (7,500 of them) and ALL of the tab, notation and practice rhythm tracks that go with them for free, for 30 days. So, you can check out and work with all of the jazz courses mentioned above to suss things out for yourself. Just go to TrueFire, sign up as a free member, and then click the activation link for the free access in the confirm email. No monkey business, no third party spam and you can opt out of our list if you wish anytime.

Meanwhile, would love to hear what you think! You can email (or flame) me direct at brad@truefire.com.

Thanks for the kind words and feedback!

His Hollowness · #10 10-14-2010, 01:42 AM

Cool!

Dookychase · #11 10-14-2010, 07:06 AM

Welcome Brad. I think alot of people here will have great suggestions for future learning material that you could perhaps put together.

I have purchased several things with truefire and was very satisfied with the material and customer service.

Thanks
Dooky

Wolfboy1 · #12 10-14-2010, 08:11 AM

Hi folks,

Newly registered and decided to post when I saw this thread. I am an avid Truefire junky (not an employee). They have just come out with several new jazz oriented courses that are getting some great press. There are numerous slightly older courses as well that are worth exploring. One of my favs is Larry Carlton's course. Not just jazz either some excellent technique courses. Frank Vignola is a monster player and has my all time favorite course (I own around 30) called "Vamps, Jams and Improv."

You guys are all welcome to come by the forums and check us out. It is a friendly, active and interesting place to chat about all things guitar as well. We pride ourselves on being exceptionally polite and helpful.

I urge you guys to try the 30 day trial. Check out whatever course interests you, print the tab, download the backing tracks (I think you can do that) and see if you don't find at least one or two courses that really capture your interest.

This is a cool forum, I will have to explore more

Reg · #13 10-14-2010, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by docbop

I would say your comparing Apples and Oranges, Jazz blues and traditional Blues are two different things and shouldn't be compared IMO.

Hey docbop... yea... I agree, different styles... Blues player use blue notes over straight harmony, jazz player use blue notes... as pedals over jazz harmony, which creates a methodology or different control factor for pitch collections,(changes). And use same concept for influencing their melodic content.
What I was really trying to convey was the difference of feel... the grease...
It's almost like trying to teach musicians to play swing... You can give examples of triplets, (playing 8th note triplet as quarter/ eighth or subdivision of a dotted 8th/16th). They both work... but neither one has that swing thing feel. Then on top of feel there are pitch patterns in jazz/blues.
Best Reg

derek · #14 10-14-2010, 09:44 AM

Apples and oranges? Maybe. However, I still like it when guys walk in both worlds very convincingly. I don't think is is very common. Different phrasing for sure, but I still enjoy when someone is walking the line between the two.

theot71 · #15 10-14-2010, 10:07 AM

The only Truefire materials I have purchased so far are "50 Jazz Licks you must know" and "50 Acoustic Licks you must know". I have picked out certain licks and learned to play them which was fun.
I think I need to mature as a musician more than just learn bits and pieces of music by memory. So I should be targeting courses that put theory and practice together to make me a better musician.
Better musician means being able to play with other musicians, be able to analyze a score/tab and be able to play it straight and with improvising.
Need to break away from finger memory and not knowing the notes, scales and modes. Have a number of books which probably hold the key just need to work them. I have used 3 teachers with some success I think one of them was good at analyzing music and breaking it down, I think the other 2 were more musicians than educators.

rvf263 · #16 10-14-2010, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wendkos

First and foremost... rvf263, sorry to hear that you are disappointed with Jazz Up Your Blues. We'll happily refund your money, no questions asked. email info@truefire.com and consider it done!

First and foremost... (I like that...lol)

I'd like to apologize for stating that I wasn't impressed with "Jazz up your Blues"
In fact it was "Jazz Guitar for Beginners" that I wasn't impressed with.

I think the DVD would have been a better option for me instead of the download version. I'll be fine with it though and may even see if I can purchase the DVD.

Secondly,
Welcome Brad!

I do appreciate the offer for a refund but there's no need for that. I just think the DVD would work better for me. (And maybe a little patients!)

Thanks for the great service at TrueFire!

-Bob

bass2man · #17 10-14-2010, 07:40 PM

theot71:

I have some of Mark Stefani's material, as well as Mimi Fox's truefire series and Rich Severson's Bebop Blues.

And yes, although some of this material sounds a little stilted, it was a great "stepping stone" from playing in teh blues box to start playing jazzier blues...
Stefani's material has licks with chord accents, Mimi's added 2-5-1's and some bebop licks...Severson has 12 bebops blues solo's written out, including some minor blues solos..

I dont have the Vignola videos but he did a jazz blues series of three books with about 40 solo written out plus jam tracks ...I learned those note for note and it really helped in getting jazzy blues licks together..mostly dominant type stuff but useful.

Hopefully by learning the jazz blues language from this material you can get to the next step which is what Reg had suggested...start transcibing from the greats..Burrell, Ellis, Kessell, Pass, etc.

Grab a few licks here and there from this material and pretty soon you can start to hear teh changes and subs and start making your own licks...

wendkos · #18 10-14-2010, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rvf263

First and foremost... (I like that...lol)

I'd like to apologize for stating that I wasn't impressed with "Jazz up your Blues"
In fact it was "Jazz Guitar for Beginners" that I wasn't impressed with.

I think the DVD would have been a better option for me instead of the download version. I'll be fine with it though and may even see if I can purchase the DVD.

Secondly,
Welcome Brad!

I do appreciate the offer for a refund but there's no need for that. I just think the DVD would work better for me. (And maybe a little patients!)

Thanks for the great service at TrueFire!

-Bob

Hey Bob - email me your mailing address (brad@truefire.com) and i'll send you the course on disk. its a data-dvd tho (mac and windows) as all our stuff is video software, not standard dvds. i am happy to send it you and so just send that postal address and we'll pop it in the mail. cool?

RonD · #19 10-14-2010, 11:12 PM

@wendkos, I like your style. That's what customer service is all about!
I too, am a Truefire fan. Looking forward to the new Mimi Fox release.

Cheers, Ron

rvf263 · #20 10-15-2010, 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonD

@wendkos, I like your style. That's what customer service is all about!
I too, am a Truefire fan. Looking forward to the new Mimi Fox release.
Cheers, Ron

+1!

T5man · #21 10-15-2010, 06:58 AM

Hi Guys,
I've been round here for a while but I am also an active member on the TrueFire forum and part of the Swat Team (moderator types) over at the site.
I can only say that Brad is the MAN and his and his teams customer service is second to none period.

The refund or replacement he offered is not a one off offer but is SOP over at TF.

I have unlimited access to the TrueFire TV chanel which Brad has offered above for free for 30 days. If you sign up for this option you also get a monthly lesson disk, a student discount off purchase of courses and cash back on purchases you can use towards the next course (s) you buy.

What do you have to lose, nothing, what to you have to gain..............go try it out and let me know

Steve

Reg · #22 10-15-2010, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bass2man

theot71:

I have some of Mark Stefani's material, as well as Mimi Fox's truefire series and Rich Severson's Bebop Blues.

And yes, although some of this material sounds a little stilted, it was a great "stepping stone" from playing in teh blues box to start playing jazzier blues...
Stefani's material has licks with chord accents, Mimi's added 2-5-1's and some bebop licks...Severson has 12 bebops blues solo's written out, including some minor blues solos..

I dont have the Vignola videos but he did a jazz blues series of three books with about 40 solo written out plus jam tracks ...I learned those note for note and it really helped in getting jazzy blues licks together..mostly dominant type stuff but useful.

Hopefully by learning the jazz blues language from this material you can get to the next step which is what Reg had suggested...start transcibing from the greats..Burrell, Ellis, Kessell, Pass, etc.

Grab a few licks here and there from this material and pretty soon you can start to hear teh changes and subs and start making your own licks...

Great post and approach... Reg

Reg · #23 10-15-2010, 10:21 AM

I must agree on response from TrueFire...the way it should be, I wish it was the standard. I'll check out more of the material, thanks to Brad's generous offer. I still stand by my original post,(sorry about grammar), subject of jazz/blues... which was meant to open your ears, not your pocket books... Best Reg

Reg · #24 10-29-2010, 03:47 PM

YouTube Video

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reg

[YOUTUBE]www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeDwM4x2kXQ[/YOUTUBE]
Here's a sample jazz/blues on sandu, by clifford Brown. If my youtube download works I'll make another quick one. It's very sloppy and I can't quite remember head... but it's like playing gig... no rehearsals. Best Reg

FatJeff · #25 10-29-2010, 04:27 PM

Great playing, Reg. I'd never heard of this song before - but after listening to Clifford's version on YouTube I went ahead and ordered the CD and I'm making this song my next transcription (head/changes/Brownie's solo).

Reg · #26 10-29-2010, 05:24 PM

YouTube Video

Cool jeff... here's another blues, the playing is not great, but the feel is more what I'm trying give example of. I'm just winging it and really shouldn't post these... but I need to get the posting skill thing down, so I probable post a bunch of different styles of different tunes. Maybe after tonights gig... Best Reg

Dad3353 · #27 10-29-2010, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reg

...the playing is not great...I'm just winging it and really shouldn't post these......

Good evening, Reg...
Now if that isn't false modesty, I don't know what is.
To all...
Now that he's started, what say we open, not a simple thread, but a whole category devoted to Reg videos? No, this is not me trying to 'wind Reg up', I honestly believe that these video shots complement his multiple erudite postings, illustrating that he does indeed perform to the standard of his advice and lessons.
Back to Reg: hat's off, lad; great stuff, very enjoyable (and pedagogic; I shall be trying out that version of CBML. Give me another few years, I'll maybe have the chords down. Give me a century or two and I'll get a handle on the easier parts of the solo...).
Many thanks, but be warned. Now that you're up and running, we'll be wanting more (and more, and more...).
Sincere congratulations (and I'm an ornery old sod that doesn't give praise lightly, believe me...)

RonD · #28 10-29-2010, 08:33 PM

Reg, Thank you.
I will echo what Dad 3353 said.
Please, post more... please.
Also, if you have any recordings, let me know.

Cheers, Ron

robertm2000 · #29 10-29-2010, 10:45 PM

I second that ... or third it ... In any case, thanks for posting Reg. You play very well, and it's quite listenable. The cool thing is, I can recognize a lot of the chord forms you play. That gives me hope that someday I too wil play that well. Cool stuff - thanks.

Reg · #30 10-30-2010, 09:56 AM

Wow...sincerely thanks... Reg