Alternative to all formal theory considering keys

[emanresu]

And are just teaching the theory?

Intervals, sight singing, writing down dictates (both melody and rhythm), T S D, etc.
There's a lot jammed into those theory lessons but it gets pretty superficial thanks to the need to cover all the keys.

Wait.. wut. I teach guitar.

[ragman1]

Do you apply the theory to tunes?

[pamosmusic]

Are you teaching only guitar? If it's only guitar, I don't see how you need 7 years to learn three chords in all the keys. It can be covered entirely in 4 moveable grips.

I don't understand the hangup.

Edit: actually 3 grips

Key of G
Grip 1: 355433
Grip 2: x35553
Grip 3: x545xx

1 and 2 can be both T and S as needed. They're both simply a major chord.
Grip 3 can be moved to the E string (545xxx) and shifted as needed.

We are talking about children here, right?

In general it will take much much much longer to work through music theory with younger children. It might seem like moveable guitar grips would make things easier, but actually that’s a level of abstraction that’s pretty difficult for kids to understand until middle school or so.

[pamosmusic]

Intervals, sight singing, writing down dictates (both melody and rhythm), T S D, etc.
There's a lot jammed into those theory lessons but it gets pretty superficial thanks to the need to cover all the keys.

Wait.. wut. I teach guitar.

I mean, I guess my question would be if you’re teaching sight singing are you using moveable Do solfège or fixed Do or what?

And the most important question here: HOW OLD ARE THE KIDS?

[emanresu]

Do you apply the theory to tunes?

Well, that's the problem - I don't have the time to get too deep into theory. When I write the chords of a tune down to help - that's no help, there is no
constant training of chords in the theory classes. All they have is T S D. In 7th year, here they reach dim7. In some schools even mII7.

This stuff needs constant work or it doesn't help. It doesn't help if they just..."know" that this is 4th triad. And in instrument classes, no time for this work.
Because of the "many keys" program is prioritized so heavily.

[ragman1]

HOW OLD ARE THE KIDS?

That was my next question!

See, I used to teach too. But I realised they'd only get something happy out of it if they were actually making music rather than being put through boot camp. So we did tunes-they-liked and then used theory to give them more playing options and make it sound better.

A bit of fun goes a long way. But I had the freedom to do that, I didn't have to follow a strict program.

[emanresu]

I mean, I guess my question would be if you’re teaching sight singing are you using moveable Do solfège or fixed Do or what?

And the most important question here: HOW OLD ARE THE KIDS?

Sight singing happens in many keys also. No moveable Do.

6-16, They start mostly at 7.

[ragman1]

Well, that's the problem - I don't have the time to get too deep into theory. When I write the chords of a tune down to help - that's no help, there is no
constant training of chords in the theory classes. All they have is T S D. In 7th year, here they reach dim7. In some schools even mII7.

This stuff needs constant work or it doesn't help. It doesn't help if they just..."know" that this is 4th triad. And in instrument classes, no time for this work.
Because of the "many keys" program is prioritized so heavily.

I can see why it bugs you.

Is this the only school you can work at?

[emanresu]

I can see why it bugs you.

Is this the only school you can work at?

No, but dreaming about fixing old Benzes for living

[pamosmusic]

Sight singing happens in many keys also. No moveable Do.

6-16, They start mostly at 7.

Ah bummer. Moveable Do would solve your problem, honestly.

I always teach using moveable do. Frankly I don’t really understand the benefit of fixed do, but I’m sure part of that is cultural. Almost no one uses it in the US aside from fairly intense choral circles.

[pamosmusic]

Sight singing happens in many keys also. No moveable Do.

6-16, They start mostly at 7.

Ah yeah. Honestly I can’t imagine theory would be particularly workable until 10+. Much younger than that and “theory” is pretty much synonymous with sight singing.

Any level of abstraction above that is a tall order.

I teach 9-10 and we’ve been able to get into triad spellings and things, but I base it all in moveable do.

[AllanAllen]

We are talking about children here, right?

In general it will take much much much longer to work through music theory with younger children. It might seem like moveable guitar grips would make things easier, but actually that’s a level of abstraction that’s pretty difficult for kids to understand until middle school or so.

Okay, I'll take your word for that. Movable shapes always made sense for me on guitar and bass. I visualize changes as shapes too.

I get that I'm using a sample pool of one. So yeah, you have more experience here.

[emanresu]

Are you teaching only guitar? If it's only guitar, I don't see how you need 7 years to learn three chords in all the keys. It can be covered entirely in 4 moveable grips.

I don't understand the hangup.

They have to know the T S D and scale's notes to pass the tests. Grips are grips - they learn the grips but have no clue what the notes are, hence no support to what's needed for the theory class.

But that thought may be helpful...
Maybe a hard workout to learn the notes on 1st position, then those 3 grips, then they could just cheat the classes with the grips

hmmmmm

edit: yeah. in my mind, its doable, yet 1 position is not enough. Could be even more work than it takes now.

[AllanAllen]

They have to know the T S D and scale's notes to pass the tests. Grips are grips - they learn the grips but have no clue what the notes are, hence no support to what's needed for the theory class.

But that thought may be helpful...
Maybe a hard workout to learn the notes on 1st position, then those 3 grips, then they could just cheat the classes with the grips

hmmmmm

edit: yeah. in my mind, its doable, yet 1 position is not enough. Could be even more work than it takes now.

If you, the performance teacher, are teaching scale notes and chord function, what is the theory teacher teaching?

[emanresu]

If you, the performance teacher, are teaching scale notes and chord function, what is the theory teacher teaching?

I have to go through those notes on the instrument. The theory teacher is teaching how to write them on staff.

[AllanAllen]

I have to go through those notes on the instrument. The theory teacher is teaching how to write them on staff.

Ah, I see. Another reason shifting grips won't work.

[ragman1]

No, but dreaming about fixing old Benzes for living

Well, you could take your worries to the bosses and see what they say. If they are rigid in their views I think I'd change jobs. Not so easy, I know, but better that than having a miserable time.

Or fix Benzes, of course :-)