A word about the word 'dominant'.

[Christian Miller]

Yea... I do all the time. Like what use to be on some charts....... play what's notated, unless you can play something.... better.

It always helps when you know and have worked with the rhythm section(s).
I did a BB gig 2 nights ago... a great Vibes player showed up... and a good friend to play piano. I gave guitar book to Vibs and read with piano...... If you have rhythmic chops and can use your ears...you can create much better parts. Obviously you need to know arranger styles and just Know their licks, which somewhat defines their style.
It really only seems to be the old working band charts that can have notation discrepancies with chord notation.

indeed.

but also

ALL SHALL SUCCUMB TO THE JAZZ VORTEX



Apparently in French charts, time is a flat circle

[A. Kingstone]

indeed.

but also

ALL SHALL SUCCUMB TO THE JAZZ VORTEX

...

[A. Kingstone]

Clear now?

[humphreysguitar]

Great thread, thanks Patrick. It's not boring, I'm always happy to read into the inference of the limitations and obvious contradictions of chord symbols.

No system is perfect and you can get some mileage from the quick labeling of triads but it's obvious that real musicians have to go beyond the chord symbols when connecting harmony and counterpoint.

I always got the sense that this is what Barry Harris meant with "movement".

[Christian Miller]

Clear now?

Weirdly yes. Nice diagram!

But bear in mind that I am mad.

[A. Kingstone]

We need to figure it out for ourselves.


We are, after all - improvisers.

[ragman1]

(A Uniform System for the Music Profession)

Soon as you see 'uniform system'... forget it :-)

[A. Kingstone]

Weirdly yes. Nice diagram!

But bear in mind that I am mad.

Though I like looking at it and it may have served a purpose at one time the most interesting usage was by Sandra Henry who took the image and printed it onto mylar (it was the first time I'd heard of this clear plastic) and suspended it with small springs on extensions she'd built on the top of a wagon. I can't remember for the life of me what was collected on the floor of the wagon. Sandra was at McMaster University for Fine Art at the time.

[princeplanet]

Though I like looking at it and it may have served a purpose at one time the most interesting usage was by Sandra Henry who took the image and printed it onto mylar (it was the first time I'd heard of this clear plastic) and suspended it with small springs on extensions she'd built on the top of a wagon. I can't remember for the life of me what was collected on the floor of the wagon. Sandra was at McMaster University for Fine Art at the time.

Huh?

[A. Kingstone]

Huh?

Exactly.

The chord constellation was a personal learning tool. I didn't include it in Barry's book though the theory behind it he had taught me. The page itself is confusing. My point is that it was better suited as sculpture (mylar on springs in a wagon) than a teaching tool.But it was part of my realisation of Seventh Chords, sometimes referred to as Dominant or Dominant Seventh Chords.

[ragman1]

Apparently in French charts, time is a flat circle

I don't think they've heard of the Uniform System :-)

[Christian Miller]

Exactly.

The chord constellation was a personal learning tool. I didn't include it in Barry's book though the theory behind it he had taught me. The page itself is confusing. My point is that it was better suited as sculpture (mylar on springs in a wagon) than a teaching tool.But it was part of my realisation of Seventh Chords, sometimes referred to as Dominant or Dominant Seventh Chords.

hehe boingy boingy

also, I sometimes draw diagrams like this thinking ‘it’s perfectly simple, look I do chart’ and realise half way through that what I’m drawing is utterly incomprehensible

Something about the nature of knowledge?

[ragman1]

No, it's because it really is incomprehensible

[Boss Man Zwiebelsohn]

No, it's because it really is incomprehensible

It's a reminder for the initiated.

[Boss Man Zwiebelsohn]

I don't think they've heard of the Uniform System :-)

This is by Philippe Baudoin according to the principles he suggested in "Jazz: Mode d'Emploi". His fakebook has the best changes BTW IMHO.

[Boss Man Zwiebelsohn]

It's a reminder for the initiated.

BTW Barry is not my guru but his teachings gave me many "Eureka!" moments.

[Christian Miller]

Yeah I mean you get used to reading all sorts of chord symbols. Alteration after the degree here I notice.

the French way of dividing up the bar - can get pretty bonkers looking. I like it in principle.

[Ukena]

and it's not DAT tape, damnit!
Baltimore has a diner called the Double-T diner, but on the sign it's written Double TT diner, and the literalist in me sees TTTT diner.

The English can't understand why Americans go horseback riding instead of horse riding.

[ragman1]

True, presumably because you sit on its back, not on its head, thus to add the word back is unnecessary. Nor do we say horse riding, it's just riding.

Lesson over :-)

[ragman1]

And I will never understand why you insist on calling the ground floor of a building the first floor. While we're at it!

[Reg]

I liked the chart... many of the possible harmonic relationships.
Sadly... that's the way my mind works, I see changes and with respect to complete chart and context.... I actually make choices and then organized them with organized targets etc.... I thought everyone did this...

So that's what I hear and see when playing...

[joelf]

[A. Kingstone]

Lowe isn't low - thankfully.

[ragman1]

Dominick Seventh

That was quite funny :-)

[PatrickJazzGuitar]

That's not what I said. I said if you have a m6 chord (example was given of C Eb G A) you can use a maj7 (C Eb G B) too since if the 6th is major the 7th is also major. You're going the other way using the 7th to define the 6th, and yeah it doesn't work that way. It might not work the way I said it, but you're replying to something I didn't say.

Natural Minor
1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7

Harmonic Minor
1 2 b3 4 5 b6 7

Melodic Minor
1 2 b3 4 5 6 7

that's right, on tonic minor, you can almost always do major/minor 7 or minor 6, depending on the feel you want.