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I haven't worked pentatonic at all on keys. I think it would suit my style and my instrument of organ. Gotta get it together. I'm just working some shifty pents to get started.
Sequencing the notes differently sounds cool:
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10-03-2022 02:35 PM
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Check out Larry Young - Unity, I think he was one of the first to explore the pentatonic stuff on the organ.
Last edited by grahambop; 10-03-2022 at 05:21 PM.
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How's your blues? If you're playing blues without the pentatonic, you're doing it wrong.
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I didn't like the mod modal sound when I started like in the Larry Young clip but now it's attractive to me. I want to be able to use that sound and obviously remedy my lack of it on blues too.
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Pentatonics, my old stomping ground.
Play different Penta scales over a chord. For example over an A chord try F#m, Bm, Em pentas instead of the usual Am.
Apologies if you already know this
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You can find it on the internet - I recommend it.
Jerry Bergonzi- Vol 2 - Pentatonics
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Steve Khan has written a book called “Pentatonic Khancepts”
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I’ve been getting into pentatonics too, I recently got a Jerry Bergonzi mymusicmasterclass video lesson on this, it’s really great. A really cool thing he does is to alter just one note in the standard pentatonic scales, this opens up some completely different sounds and chord applications. Now I just need to practise this stuff!
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^ More to practice! It's a nice sound though, and it's versatile and applicable. I like the sound and vibe of using the same simple scale but placing it differently to get chromaticism. It's nice and smooth, wanna get command of it.
No, it actually didn't occur to me at the moment to just try sticking different pent scales on the same chord. I'll do that.
Originally Posted by Liarspoker
Pentatonics, my old stomping ground.
Play different Penta scales over a chord. For example over an A chord try F#m, Bm, Em pentas instead of the usual Am.
Apologies if you already know this
Thanks for the book recommendations. I think I'll probably have plenty to practice already tho.
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Depends what you mean by Pentatonics, I mean there's the standard major or minor pent, but any 5 note collection is a pentatonic, right? A chord like Cmaj7b9 is a pentatonic (well, the arp), just sayin...
Anyway, as well as the books mentioned, Ramon Ricker goes deep with this stuff...
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the pent wonderland..some think its for beginners..well we are all beginners in some areas
here is a Coltrane approach to the Pent scale
The John Coltrane Pentatonic – The Practice of Practice
this takes the scale to another level..bypassing the "guitar oriented" patterns
enjoy
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Yea... get the standard Maj and Min versions
C D E G A or the relative min version
A C D E G
And be able to play starting on each note with that note being the reference or target. (5 patterns)
And the the Dom Pentatonic (same, 5 patterns)
C D E G Bb and again the relative
G Bb C D E
Don't learn them in single octaves.... at least heat as two octave patterns.
i posted years ago... but the dom pent is great over MM even when the root isn't played LOL
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Normal Am pentatonic: A C D E G.
Am6 pentatonic: A C D E F# (b7 becomes m6).
These m6 pentatonics are basically truncated versions of the melodic minor scales. So where lines can be created by using the mel m, substitute the m6 pentatonic. Instead of scalar lines you get a sort of dreamy, floaty sound which is considered very modern if not 'spiritual' (New Age-y would be more appropriate!).
Examples of m6 pents over certain chords:
Bm7b5 - Dm6 pent
E7alt - Fm6 pent
Am or Am6 - Am6 pent
G7, G9, G13 - Dm6 pent
G7alt - Abm6 pent
They don't work over major chords. Over CM7, for example, Am6 pent or Em6 pent aren't good but the usual Am, Em and Bm (for the #11 feel) pentatonics are fine.
They're obviously very effective over modal progressions. Over So What, for example, Dm6 and Ebm6 pents work nicely.
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P.S. I think it was Robben Ford who liked going one step further and introduced the 9 as well as the m6. So Am69 pent would be ABDEF#. Sounds good in the right place.
You might notice that's a Bm7 pent starting on A. But you're not supposed to play it like that :-)
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I see a lot of knowledge about petatonics ... it's high time to put it into practice and start practicing seriously ... ;-)
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Yes sir! Originally Posted by kris
Thx liarspoker for the idea to try subs.
Thx ragman for the dorian pent and minor 2-5-1 shifty pent idea. I'll be looking for more minor applications.
Thx Reg for the mix pent. It sounds good, does it have shifty applications?
Thx grahambop for the idea of changing 1 note in the scale.
I'm getting these under my fingers and they're sounding good. I really like the nice clean sound.Last edited by Bobby Timmons; 10-09-2022 at 06:30 AM.
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Scofield's thinking about minor penta and chord progrersion 2516.You can find nice patterns in "On Improvisation" Scof's video...:-)
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Most guitarists get stuck in the pents because they are hearing them in the same applications (blues, rock, country) whereas it really helps to find where the pents may be used in jazz where the pitches become altered... here is a real example as in the beginning of the B section of Masquerade... in F minor.
Chords and Pents
Ebm7 - - - - Db major pent
Ab9 - - - - - D major pent
Dbmaj7 - - Eb maj pent
Bb13 - - - - E maj pent
Notice how easy that is; you already know the pents and these just shift up chromatically. That could provide you four bars of altered improvisation with the simple organizational direction of "major pent - shift up chromatically each bar/chord change". The sound of that is very nice, especially if you just descend each pent from its tonic. This is an abstract modern sound; to get back you can leave the pents and play "normal", continue the descending motif, but reverse direction now shifting down chromatically for each, something like this... descending from F at the 13th fret:
Ebm7------- F Db Bb Gb Eb
Ab9 -------- E C A Gb Eb
Dbmaj7 --- Eb C Ab F Db
Once you hear what the pents can do you can find all kinds of applications in jazz.
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My favourite minor pents
Cmaj7 - Em
Cmaj7#11 - Bm
Cm7 - Gm
C7sus - Gm
C7alt - Ebm
C7#9 - Bbm
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Chad LB has some videos on pentatonics
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A brand new one by Peter Farrell
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It's good to know pentatonics-theoretically ... but much more important is how to practice pentatonics and it's best to develop your own system. Don't think about all pentatonics at once. For example, I'm simplifying my thinking to minor pentatonics and trying to build interesting melodic lines.I have been working on penta for over 40 years and I am passionate about McCoy Tyner and J.Scofield-of course.
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Yea... the application part is easy, lots of options. It's just like harmony, using of subs etc... As most seem to realize it's about.... getting your chops...(technique) together.
And again don't skip the dom pents. tough fingerings. One of my favorites for using II V's with the V 7#11 etc... and all the subs.
And as said above ... they become a vehicle for supporting other melodic figures... just like chords.
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I like pentatonics with a missing 7th. So a quadatonic scale? Or min triad add 4. Sounds hip.
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