Ben Monder Harmony

[Fra88]

Hi everybody,

i have been playing some tunes by Ben Monder recently, and i found out some interesting voicings that i didn't understand very well, like for example:

- a chord with E, F, F#, A# with the A# in the bass, F third voice, E second voice and F# the voice at the melody...

Could someone explain to me better this type of voicings?

[paulkogut]

Is it played. 68x97x? 6x3x70? Is it part of an ensemble piece where bass, horn or piano add context? Is it a solo piece? What is the voice leading in and out of the structure?

A lot of modern harmony on the guitar doesn't seem to be easy explained in more traditional R-3-5-7 chord terminology. To me, the simplest way of looking at that voicing is a Maj 2nd over a P5, but so much depends on context.

PK

[wolflen]

Context? Ben doesn't play by grabs on a change. Many of his harmonies are comprised of passing notes going to a succeeding chord through voice leading.
Have you by any chance studied Bach Chorales? They are more helpful and closer to Ben's approach to harmony than Mel Bay. Post the piece you're quoting from, let's have a listen.

Yes..Monder and many others are not "playing guitar" as much as they are playing music.. there was a book by Howard Roberts on chord melody..in which he stresses.."chord names are not as important as the harmony they produce..."

so yes if you build chords by a formula and choose one of several names for it .. that could be your intent..

when I studied with Ted Greene and he played something..and I asked..what chord is that...he would have to stop and think about it and then gave me all the "could be" names..as he was playing by voice leading and not by chordal movement..and Ted has a Bach Chorales lesson series on his web site..

chords are just melodic/harmonic notes at rest

[jazzkritter]

Wolf... exact same thing Tal would say in lessons... “well I’m not sure”. Think about it the “it could be this” started. Of course Tal being a Tal there was always the “gee I’m not sure your hand can do this like me”.
Nope, not my little fingers

[Sam Sherry]

chords are just melodic/harmonic notes at rest

A novel in a sentence there.

[Fra88]

Is it played. 68x97x? 6x3x70? Is it part of an ensemble piece where bass, horn or piano add context? Is it a solo piece? What is the voice leading in and out of the structure?

A lot of modern harmony on the guitar doesn't seem to be easy explained in more traditional R-3-5-7 chord terminology. To me, the simplest way of looking at that voicing is a Maj 2nd over a P5, but so much depends on context.

PK

The tune is called "In Memoriam"... is a solo guitar tune.

I suggest you to listen it if you don't know it.

[christianm77]

“Harmony is a fairy tale told about counterpoint.”

[Dune89-Sky]

are very dissonant and generally only used as ’effect’ chords. Or then the piece is highly atonal and chromatic (a la Schoenberg).

Hi everybody,

i have been playing some tunes by Ben Monder recently, and i found out some interesting voicings that i didn't understand very well, like for example:

- a chord with E, F, F#, A# with the A# in the bass, F third voice, E second voice and F# the voice at the melody...

Could someone explain to me better this type of voicings?