Names for fully extend chords

[stworzenie]

Hi


I had trouble with finding names for this chords:


c,e,g#,b,d,f,a - ?
d,f,a,c,e,g#,b - ?
e,g#,b,d,f,a,c - ?
f,a,c,e,g#,b,d - ?
g#,b,d,f,a,c,e - ?
a,c,e,g#,b,d,f - ?
b,d,f,a,c,e,g# - ?


_______


c,e,g#,b,d,f#,a - ?
d,f#,a,c,e,g#,b - ?
e,g#,b,d,f#,a,c - ?
f#,a,c,e,g#,b,d - ?
g#,b,d,f#,a,c,e - ?
a,c,e,g#,b,d,f# - ?
b,d,f#,a,c,e,g# - ?




and I found an answer but I do not understand it


First line -


Cmaj13+5
Dm13+11
Emaj7+5add11-9
Fmaj7+11+9
Fmaj7+11+9/Ab
Am maj11+5
Bm 13-9


Second line-


Cmaj13-5
D13 add9+11
E11+5
Am Maj11/f#
E11+5/G#
Am Maj13
Bm7 add11add13-9


What is wrong with g# and f# chords?
And why chord [c,e,g#,b,d,f#,a] is Cmaj13-5?
I think chord [c,e,g#,b,d,f#,a] is Cmaj13/+11/+5 not Cmaj13-5


5 is g# not gb,11(or 4) is also sharp ...help


For example


c,d,e,f,g,a,b - ionian scale
c,e,g,b,d,f,a - "ionian chord" Cmaj9/11/13


d,e,f,g,a,b,c - dorian scale
d,f,a,c,e,g,b - "dorian chord" Dm13


e,f,g,a,b,c,d - phrygian scale
e,g,b,d,f,a,c - "phrygian chord" Em713-/9


Each scale has own tonic/root chord
and if we fully expand tonic chord it will still be tonic chord,right??

I dont need all possible names,just one
if we take f#,a,c,e,g#,b,d = F# what
g#,b,d,f#,a,c,e = G# what etc

[matt.guitarteacher]

That's harmonic minor and melodic minor. You'd probably get good results doing searches on terms like " harmonic minor extended chords" etc. Specific modes of melodic minor are kind of more codified and have terms for each mode etc. Harmonic minor, not as much. It's just kind of all "harmonic minor". Check out theory on the use of extended chords in each.

[Runepune]

And why chord [c,e,g#,b,d,f#,a] is Cmaj13-5?
I think chord [c,e,g#,b,d,f#,a] is Cmaj13/+11/+5 not Cmaj13-5

Are you using some kind of online chord-naming engine? Those names make little sense...

I could maybe call this one E11/C.

It's hard to make sensible functional chord naming using standard "step" naming for these seven-note things you posted. Many of them would probably be better described with dual chords. Like the third one: e,g#,b,d,f,a,c - F over E7#5.

And do not use + and -. Use # and b

[docbop]

How to plan to use them might like what do you want considered the root. What notes do you care if the player considers optional. If part of an arrangement especially with horns or strings, might want to write as polychords to be more specific. If thinking modes may want to just write C Dorian, B Phrygian, F Aeolian that gives the player a lot of info to work with.

You wrote them in 3rd's some can just name based on the order. Like the first one c,e,g#,b,d,f,a.

C, E, G# you have an augmented triad,
B okay a natural 7th so might what to call it CMa7+5 that is clear as to which 7th and you want the raised 5th.

After that all are diatonic to C Major so don't need to say anything unless you want a 9th or 13th. Do you want 11th in there typically would be left out, if you do could change and call it a C sus Ma7 9/13 +5 and cross your fingers. Really that is a situation that writing the chord voicing in notation. You're talking about IMO a ugly chord that only the arranger know how it fits into the grand scheme of things. That would be my thought process on that.

Ma7+5 and Ma7+9 are popular chords these days, but including the other colors I don't know.

[ragman1]

Those notes are A harmonic minor and A melodic minor, from C to C.

c,e,g#,b,d,f,a
d,f,a,c,e,g#,b

That first chord is Bm7b5 over C#5. Or maybe it's Dm over CM7#5. Or maybe CM13#5add11*. The second one is the reverse of that!

There's no single name unless you want to invent one - and maybe nobody will know what you're talking about

*If there is such a thing

[stworzenie]

Hm...there is no some simple way to name each of these chords starting from first root note?

That first chord is Bm7b5 over C#5. Or maybe it's Dm over CM7#5. The second one is the reverse of that!

I have deja vu...Pat Martino Quantum Guitar Complete?
Of course we can split one thirteenth chord on five different triads
but that's not what I need.

b,d,f = Bm/5-
b,d,f,a = Bm7/5-
b,d,f,a,c = Bm79-/5-
b,d,f,a,c,e,g# = Bm713/5-/9-

B is root and each name refers to this note.

I need the same formula for those chords/scales



c,e,g#,b,d,f,a - c what ?
d,f,a,c,e,g#,b - d what ?
e,g#,b,d,f,a,c - e...?
f,a,c,e,g#,b,d - f...?
g#,b,d,f,a,c,e - g# what ? etc
a,c,e,g#,b,d,f - ?
b,d,f,a,c,e,g# - ?


_______


c,e,g#,b,d,f#,a - ?
d,f#,a,c,e,g#,b - ?
e,g#,b,d,f#,a,c - ?
f#,a,c,e,g#,b,d - ?
g#,b,d,f#,a,c,e - ?
a,c,e,g#,b,d,f# - ?
b,d,f#,a,c,e,g# - ?

[Jonah]

b,d,f = Bm/5-
b,d,f,a = Bm7/5-
b,d,f,a,c = Bm79-/5-
b,d,f,a,c,e,g# = Bm713/5-/9-

B is root and each name refers to this note.

I need the same formula for those chords/scales



c,e,g#,b,d,f,a - c what ?
d,f,a,c,e,g#,b - d what ?
e,g#,b,d,f,a,c - e...?
f,a,c,e,g#,b,d - f...?
g#,b,d,f,a,c,e - g# what ? etc
a,c,e,g#,b,d,f - ?
b,d,f,a,c,e,g# - ?


_______


c,e,g#,b,d,f#,a - ?
d,f#,a,c,e,g#,b - ?
e,g#,b,d,f#,a,c - ?
f#,a,c,e,g#,b,d - ?
g#,b,d,f#,a,c,e - ?
a,c,e,g#,b,d,f# - ?
b,d,f#,a,c,e,g# - ?

There's more or less conventional system of naming chords. And unfortunately that system does not always represent modal approach to chords..
but if you use it, you should know how it works.

If you want formula to represent complete chords with all the scale notes, use flatting or sharping steps in reference to major scale.


c,e,g#,b,d,f,a - c what ? Cmaj13#11 (or CM13)
d,f,a,c,e,g#,b - d what ? D-13#11 (or Dm13#11)
e,g#,b,d,f,a,c - e...? E13b9 (usually it is meant that 7th is flat)
f,a,c,e,g#,b,d - f...? Fmaj13#9#11
etc.


By the way
b,d,f,a is not Bm7/5-, it is half-diminished, usually written like Bm7-5, or Bm 'with crossed 'o' after it'

[stworzenie]

There's more or less conventional system of naming chords. And unfortunately that system does not always represent modal approach to chords..

Does this mean that there is a better way?You know it?

[Jonah]

Does this mean that there is a better way?You know it?

Yes I do...

Did you try to analyze chord names I gave in my previous post?

If you want formula to represent complete chords with all the scale notes, use flatting or sharping steps in reference to major scale.


c,e,g#,b,d,f,a - c what ? Cmaj13#11 (or CM13)
d,f,a,c,e,g#,b - d what ? D-13#11 (or Dm13#11)
e,g#,b,d,f,a,c - e...? E13b9 (usually it is meant that 7th is flat)
f,a,c,e,g#,b,d - f...? Fmaj13#9#11
etc.

feel free to ask if something is not clear

[stworzenie]

I'm trying but it is hard,I use google tanslator because I dont know english enough good.

d,f,a,c,e,g#,b D-13#11

That "-" it refers for which note?B?
But we dont have b flat in d dorian ...

[ragman1]

.

Can you tell us why you are doing all this? What's it all about?

[Jonah]

I'm trying but it is hard,I use google tanslator because I dont know english enough good.

d,f,a,c,e,g#,b D-13#11

That "-" it refers for which note?B?
But we dont have b flat in d dorian ...

That '-' refers to D in this case. D minor 7th chord, I wrote it above

The system is not consistent, people can use different sign for same chords sometimes
Lets look at it using C

Triads
C = major triad
Cm or C- = minor triad
C+ = augmenterd major triad (raise 5)
Cm+ = augmented minor triad

7th chords
Cmaj7 or CM7 = major 7th chord (natural 7th)
C7 = dominant 7th chord (b7)
Cm7 or C-7 = minor 7th chord (b7)
Cm(maj7) = minor major 7th (minor triad and major 7th)

Cdim or Co - diminished chord (b3,b5,bb7)
Cm7b5 - half-diminished (b3,b5,b7)

'+' is used the same way to show 'raise 5' in 7th chord
Cmaj7+, C7+, Cm7+

9th
C9 = dom7th and natural9
Cmaj7/9 or Cmaj7add9 or Cmaj7(9) = major 7th chord and natural 9
Cm7/9 or C-7/9 or Cm7(add9) etc. = minor 7th chord and natural 9

11th
C11 = 7th dominant chord and natural 9 and natural 11
Cmaj11 = major 7th chord and natural 9 and natural 11
Cm11 = minor 7th chord and natural 9 and natural 11

13th
C11 = 7th dominant chord and natural 9 and natural 11 and natural 13
Cmaj11 = major 7th chord and natural 9 and natural 11 and natural 13
Cm11 = minor 7th chord and natural 9 and natural 11 and natural 13

'add'
Usually it is used to show that the note is added to triad or 7th chord without notes in betwee
Cmaj7(add13) = c-e-g-b-a (9 and 11 are dropped out)
Cadd9 = c-e-g-d (major triad and 9, 7th is dropped out

'+' or'-' (# or b)
used in reference to natural major/minor scale usually
Cmaj7#11 is Lydian chord if you think of scale... all notes are natural to Lydian scale.
but #11 comes from reference to natural major

Using + or # depends on habit, convinience, readability

[matt.guitarteacher]

Can you tell us why you are doing all this? What's it all about?

Yep. There it is. The most important question.

[stworzenie]

That '-' refers to D in this case. D minor

I see ok,thanks.

why you are doing all this? What's it all about?

I cant say,it's a secret,I'm working on this at the behest of army,and if I tell you why,then I'll have to kill You

[ragman1]

it's a secret

In that case, so's the answer :-)

[Runepune]

I'm trying but it is hard,I use google tanslator because I dont know english enough good.

d,f,a,c,e,g#,b D-13#11

That "-" it refers for which note?B?
But we dont have b flat in d dorian ...

That's the problem with the different ways of writing chords. The - + b #.

I suggest using "b" and "#" when modifying scale steps, noting that they're either flattened or sharpened.

For minor, I prefer the "m" myself, but one may use "-" or just a lower case letter (C=major, c=minor).

To avoid confusion, use the unmodified number first, then fill in with necessary modifications. E.g. C13b9. C7#11.

A number higher than 7 always assumes that 7 and anything up to that number is present (unless the higher number is modified, in which case the highest unmodified one is noted first). No reason to write a lower number unless it is modified.

This notation is "functional" though...so when you are getting into the seven note thingys you have here it is starting to lose sense...Having both 11 and #11 (and 13 and b13 for that matter), there are likely better ways to put it on paper than this way of chord naming

[stworzenie]

I have two names

g#,b,d,f#,a,c,e = G#alt 7b9#9b5#5


f#,a,c,e,g#,b,d = F#m11b13b5

starting to lose sense...Having both 11 and #11

11 = 4
11# = b5
what's the problem?

[Runepune]

I have two names

g#,b,d,f#,a,c,e = G#alt 7b9#9b5#5


f#,a,c,e,g#,b,d = F#m11b13b5



11 = 4
11# = b5
what's the problem?

Not really. #11 doesn't tell you to modify the fifth, b5 does.

g#,b,d,f#,a,c,e = G#alt 7b9#9b5#5

I wouldn't classify that as a G#7alt. It starts out with a m7b5 shape. The b and c would have to switch place to be a 7alt.

I'm just saying that indicating all steps relative to a starting note doesn't necessarily make sense, as this system is best used to indicate function (so that one can voice a functional chord or improvise over it). Something like A7maj7b911#11 would make little sense to me, and would be better served with a score

[stworzenie]

How about this

c,e,g#,b,d,f,a - C+maj 11/13
d,f,a,c,e,g#,b - Dm13#11
e,g#,b,d,f,a,c - E13 b9/11 or E phryg b13 add10
f,a,c,e,g#,b,d - Fmaj13#9#11
g#,b,d,f,a,c,e - G#dim7b11b5b13
a,c,e,g#,b,d,f - Ammaj11b13
b,d,f,a,c,e,g# - Bm13b5b9




f#,a,c,e,g#,b,d - F#m11b5b9b13

[matt.guitarteacher]

I think the clearest way to format this (other than on the staff) would be to use the diatonic 7th chords with the 3 extensions specified after:

CMa7 (9, 11, 13) for C Ionian

G#m7b5 (b9, b11, b13) for G# super-locrian

Yep. Standard practice.

[Jonah]

How about this

c,e,g#,b,d,f,a - C+maj 11/13
d,f,a,c,e,g#,b - Dm13#11
e,g#,b,d,f,a,c - E13 b9/11 or E phryg b13 add10
f,a,c,e,g#,b,d - Fmaj13#9#11
g#,b,d,f,a,c,e - G#dim7b11b5b13
a,c,e,g#,b,d,f - Ammaj11b13
b,d,f,a,c,e,g# - Bm13b5b9




f#,a,c,e,g#,b,d - F#m11b5b9b13

Read carefully what's written in previous posts, please. I understand you enjoy the process but I really don't feel like writing the same thing again and again

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