Summary of use of common tensions and extensions

**christianm77** · 12-19-2016, 08:06 PM

Originally Posted by JakeAcci

kind of splitting pedagogical hairs here.

I don't believe so. I am probably not explaining myself very well. I'll see if I can formulate my ideas in a clearer way at some point.

**JakeAcci** · 12-19-2016, 08:17 PM

It's ok Christian I made this thread kind of a shit show and I take responsibility for that. Next time I'll be more thoughtful about presenting context.

**christianm77** · 12-19-2016, 08:24 PM

Originally Posted by JakeAcci

It's ok Christian I made this thread kind of a shit show and I take responsibility for that. Next time I'll be more thoughtful about presenting context.

I'm sorry I sort of hijacked it. I was a bit bored earlier. I went out and played some tunes and hung out with some musos. Much better :-)

**Jonah** · 12-21-2016, 06:16 AM

I could not remember where I saw it, but now I think it was Joe Pass Guitar Style Book

THere was this kind of systematic template you tried to elaborate.

First the chords were described like

Major chords

1) triad: C, C6, Cmaj7, Cadd9, Cmaj9, C6/9)
2) dom7th: C7, C9, C11, C13)

Minor chords

1) triad: Cm, Cm6, Cm (maj7)
2) 7th: Cm7, Cm9, Cm11

Diminished (described as derived from dom7th)

Augmented (triad aug , maj7 aug, and #11th - yes he puts it in this section)

Altered (b # 5, b # 9)

And he says the main concept: Reduce all chords to one of the three basic form respectively: triad, dom7th, min7th

**Jonah** · 12-21-2016, 06:19 AM

Another system that seems interesting to me for these introductore teaching purposes would be split it into two parts"

1) extensions of all 7th chords (this will include all diatonic extensions)
2) possible alterations (this will include all #b 9, #11, b # 5 etc.)

this is also kind of simplification, but still more relevant to theory

**christianm77** · 12-21-2016, 09:00 AM

When is an alteration an alteration and not simply a passing tone?

**christianm77** · 12-21-2016, 09:01 AM

Originally Posted by Jonah

I could not remember where I saw it, but now I think it was Joe Pass Guitar Style Book

THere was this kind of systematic template you tried to elaborate.

First the chords were described like

Major chords

1) triad: C, C6, Cmaj7, Cadd9, Cmaj9, C6/9)
2) dom7th: C7, C9, C11, C13)

Minor chords

1) triad: Cm, Cm6, Cm (maj7)
2) 7th: Cm7, Cm9, Cm11

Diminished (described as derived from dom7th)

Augmented (triad aug , maj7 aug, and #11th - yes he puts it in this section)

Altered (b # 5, b # 9)

And he says the main concept: Reduce all chords to one of the three basic form respectively: triad, dom7th, min7th

That's pretty straightforward, I like it.

**Jonah** · 12-21-2016, 09:09 AM

When is an alteration an alteration and not simply a passing tone?

this is too contextual a question.

**bako** · 12-21-2016, 10:26 AM

Originally Posted by christianm77

When is an alteration an alteration and not simply a passing tone?

The temporal factor for me is an important determinant.

Notes of emphasis hang around longer, are accented or occur at rhythmic resolution points within a phrase.

Notes that serve as short connectors between the target notes are passing tones.

Similar notes that stick around for awhile but ultimately serve a similar role as passing tone I think of as suspensions.

Notes that are treated as a destination unto itself is essentially a chord tone, be it basic or extended.

The idea of an alteration is based on the assumption that there exists material prime, an altered note reflecting a deviation from the starting reference. Most often, the major scale and it's associated harmonies is that starting reference.

Curious to hear people's thoughts on this question:

How might the decision to name a note a passing tone or an alteration influence our musical response?

**Jonah** · 12-21-2016, 10:39 AM

How might the decision to name a note a passing tone or an alteration influence our musical response?

It's not that it influences... for me this choice represents out perception.

Of course if we use it conciously...

Me personally I do not care much about names as far as I get and I uderstand and can explain the meaning... but in conventional sysytem - especially when you do not have an option for dialogue or converstaion - using correct name might be very important.

In this case the idea of TC is to make very systematic template which leads inevitably to some genralizations and simplifications... which is ok if we know how to use it.

That's why when I mentioned above: extensions and alterations I did not go in details on purpose.

From point of view of classical harmony altered tone can be a passing tone...

Alteration means just the fact of raising or lowering a tone of diatonic scale....

Passing tone - means the function of this note in certain harmonic context, in real music

**Jonah** · 12-21-2016, 11:04 AM

Notes that serve as short connectors between the target notes are passing tones.

Similar notes that stick around for awhile but ultimately serve a similar role as passing tone I think of as suspensions.

I would say

- passing tones have very obvious connection function as you say.. and I would also add that usually they are on weak beats and often between the notes of the same chord
- suspension belongs to a different chord (previous one) and in classical it should be prepared... sometimes passing tone may sound as unprepared suspension

anyway... it's not nessasarily that passing notes or suspension are altered notes... even on the contrary ... usually they are diatonic.

What is interesting is to consider alteration as a representative sound of another harmony... not just an embelishment.
That gives more harmonic devices.

**Jonah** · 12-21-2016, 11:08 AM

Cmaj7#11

if we analazy it as C Lydian then F# is not an alteration
If we analyze it as C major key tonic chord, F# is alteration

**christianm77** · 12-21-2016, 11:34 AM

What happens after the note is obviously a big deal. Passing tone tend to resolve by step, while notes that are part of the chord tend to be

Here's a Koan for you (if you like):

E F A C E

Usually I see the first E as a passing tone and the second note on as a 7th.

Context.

I often play this over G7. First note is a LN (Passing Tone) and resolves upward by step. It is normally placed on the upbeat, unless I am Raney-ing that shit. :-)

So, LN - b7 9 11 13, right?

Now I might resolve it like this:

E | F A C E Db B D (or something)

Now, we could think of that Db as either a passing tone, but it's quite common (since the 20s) to go G13 G7+ G7 (i.e. a chromatic melody in given in a chord chart), and of course the last note could also be the 9 on a C chord which is where I tend to use this line (ii-V-I lick.)

So little line cliches can also be put into the chord.

Anyone who has spent time reading big band charts will notice the extreme embellishments you sometimes get in chords, following the horn arrangement. And this is like 40s stuff. The moving 5th stuff is classic, as is putting a Io7 before the I in a ii-V-I. You see this kind of stuff

Cm7 Dbm6 / Cm7 | F7 F7+ F13 / | Bbo7 / / Bb | Bb+ Bb6 / / | right?

It's this

Cm7 | F7 | Bb | % |

These lines given in the changes are normally going somewhere, usually to a resolution point - they are passing tones given in the harmony. They are passing tones given in harmony - line cliches. A skilled big band guitarist will see i bar 2-4 as containing this melody:

C C# D / | E / / F | F# G / / |

The written chord notation is rather awkward, don't you think?

**Jonah** · 12-21-2016, 05:01 PM

E F A C E

Usually I see the first E as a passing tone and the second note on as a 7th.

I'd rather call it a lead note or approach note.. but lead notes may be considered as a special case of ppassing notes. Passing is something in between - passing from/to))

the line could be broken up to make overlapping ideas...

Line F-A-C-E sounds like suspension both to G7 and to root C (sus chord)

This Db I could hear as passing note in relatively fast tempo and the phrasing when the line C Db D is quite audible... then it makes the whole line C E Db B D kind of appogiatura... maj3rd up to E then min3rd down to Db than lower 2nd to B (all together it makes a 4th down) and back min3rd...
By the way the logics of this movement is very classical essentially jusmps are compensating one another...

But in a sense it's not real appogiatura... if all the notes have the same value - then Db B notes could bring in the strong feel of Db7 chord (triton sub)... it depends on the ears of course... on phrasing

But here's the whole difference... passing note is just a passing note.. and another harmony is something more essential

**christianm77** · 12-21-2016, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by Jonah

I'd rather call it a lead note or approach note.. but lead notes may be considered as a special case of ppassing notes. Passing is something in between - passing from/to))

Sure. Leading tone. Lower Neighbour is the term I tend to use. Anyway, point is it's not harmonic.

the line could be broken up to make overlapping ideas...

Line F-A-C-E sounds like suspension both to G7 and to root C (sus chord)

Sure whatever. Don't lay that vertical stuff on me chord boy. ;-)

Seriously, the C here is obviously not a passing tone. It is harmonic tone here against the G7 chord - suspension? Maybe, but what chord is it suspended from?

It's an 11 (I think) - an extension of G7.

But you aren't allowed to do that are you? 4/11 is an avoid note. And yet, here it is right in the core bebop language. This is a line that gets used all the time. Take that Mark Levine! ;-)

This Db I could hear as passing note in relatively fast tempo and the phrasing when the line C Db D is quite audible... then it makes the whole line C E Db B D kind of appogiatura... maj3rd up to E then min3rd down to Db than lower 2nd to B (all together it makes a 4th down) and back min3rd...
By the way the logics of this movement is very classical essentially jusmps are compensating one another...

Yes. The application on bop can be rhythmically quite all over the place tho. The pitch choice often VERY classical though, with more syncopated/rhythmically displaced phrasing.

But in a sense it's not real appogiatura... if all the notes have the same value - then Db B notes could bring in the strong
feel of Db7 chord (triton sub)... it depends on the ears of course... on phrasing

But here's the whole difference... passing note is just a passing note.. and another harmony is something more essential

How long does it have to stick around before becoming harmonic?

I don't think there's a sensible answer to that BTW.

**Jonah** · 12-21-2016, 05:34 PM

Sure. Leading tone. Lower Neighbour is the term I tend to use. Anyway, point is it's not harmonic.

Bu it could belong to another harmony too - we need expanded context you know)))

Seriously, the C here is obviously not a passing tone. It is harmonic tone here against the G7 chord - suspension? Maybe, but what chord is it suspended from?

It's an 11 (I think) - an extension of G7.

But you aren't allowed to do that are you? 4/11 is an avoid note. And yet, here it is right in the core bebop language. This is a line that gets used all the time. Take that Mark Levine! ;-)

Not really sure what you mean... I did not call C a passing tone.

C could be heard both as suspension to G7 (from F chord in this case).. the fact that there is no F chord before it does not matter much here... we do not have to prepare asuspension as in classical... but obvicously if it is suspensio than from IV chord (IV - V - V) or could be also I chord (I - V - I) but not in this case I think...

or as extension 11 - I have no problem with hearing like this...

What I like about jazz harmony that it is still very living thing.. sus chords in my opinion got very independent (they sort of lost their sus feeling) - and that is not only thanks to Maiden Voyage))

How long does it have to stick around before becoming harmonic?

I don't think there's a sensible answer to that BTW.

you never know)

I think it's important form which side we approch the stuff... we already have some hearing, some experience... some cultural education and so on... it is possible we imply harmonic relations that are common for us, for our ears immediately...

**christianm77** · 12-21-2016, 05:48 PM

What I like about jazz harmony that it is still very living thing.. sus chords in my opinion got very independent (they sort of lost their sus feeling) - and that is not only thanks to Maiden Voyage))

I would say that the big thing about '60s music in general is people started to replace the dominant with a sus sound. Arguably the bebop guys started this move. Bacharach loved his bop.

**Jonah** · 12-22-2016, 01:39 AM

I would say that the big thing about '60s music in general is people started to replace the dominant with a sus sound. Arguably the bebop guys started this move. Bacharach loved his bop.

As sub for dominant I associate this chord with gospel - blues, soul, R&B and pop-music originated in (or influenced by) these styles.
(For example British groups from 60's used it much less than American pop musicians - at least it seems so to me)

The sepcific feature that it is kind of mixture of D and S. It is both regular and plagal cadence in one chord

I am not really sure where it comes from but this kind of voice-leading reminds me African music vocal polyphony - maybe it's originated in early Afro - American spirituels and gospels...
I don't know English term... but in Russian musicologists sometimes use the term 'ribbon voice-leading' in this case...

Changes like Hymn to Freedom, I Wish I Knew How, New York State Of Mind all have this chord in most typical use to me..

And this one too

**Jonah** · 12-22-2016, 04:11 AM

Here's an interesting line - #1

To me it clearly shows harmonic voice leading - what in classical music often called 'hidden polyphon'

1st and a half of the 2nd bar (till Ab (or G# in the notation of this video) still can be treated in a way that this is

A -G - G# - (A) line
A = 11 of Gm
G = root of Gm and then 3rd of 7
G# = passing note or lead note
A = 3rd of F

Though final A is not played I am almost sure it would be played in the accompaniment, even if there's only bass player behind it he would most probably play A on the second beat (even if not we still understand and catch this resolution G# to A)

The other notes in between (I marked the main line in bold) A G F E G D G#...
this secondary also sounds independent GFED - consequently downward movement.. But since the notes fall mostly on weak beats (and G F are 16ths going to E) - it probably sounds a little weaker...
So it also more or less can be treated in traditional 'appogiatura style' embelishment... We go down a 4th from A then up a 3rd to G...

Already D is a sign of something different going on here because it's parallel downward movemet in 4rths (A-E, G-D)... there's actually no smooth way back up any more... he either has to go on moving high voice downward (which is not too good - probably go to something like D# - F# - E - F I don't know... sounds corny... or go all the way down to another idea) or break the line clearly in two lines..

So G# shows up...
1) all the previous notes are diatonic, and G# is the first altered note which immeadiately attract attention to this high line as the lead one...
2) but now the interval between D and G# is two wide and G# clearly shows direction up to A... you will hardly move D up too in this case - so the interval is going to be even wider...

He finally breaks the line in two voices going in lower voice to C#-D#-C

As a result we hear the whole line as both - integral single line that contain two voices... I am convinced that we should not try to break this ambovalency of the line... as well as with Bach hidden polyphony in chordal texture.. we analyze it but we should not (and actually cannot) break it ultinately... because this what music (art) is for... it gives us magic possibility to see things logically impossible to be seen - to see the diamond from a few sides simaltenously...
We can stop and analyze it but back to music we can only admire...

So back to analyzis we have two lines in one both startin from A
A - G - G# - (A)
A - G - F - E - D - C# - D# - C

But what are these C# - D#.. ok we can treat it as appogiatura since the line is just going from D to C... C# (or Db) is the passing note to C.. and D# is an embelishment to compensate with this jump-up a constant downward movement from A in this line...

This explanation would be ok for me if we did not have G# in the higher voice line.. these three working together make it a harmonic movement behind it for me.. these altered notes are not just appogiaturas here but they belong to another harmony...
Which harmony is another question..

**Vladan** · 12-22-2016, 08:10 AM

Originally Posted by Jonah

As sub for dominant I associate this chord with gospel - blues, soul, R&B and pop-music originated in (or influenced by) these styles.
(For example British groups from 60's used it much less than American pop musicians - at least it seems so to me)

Europe, Britain, 1969