The difference between major 6th and major 7th

[Helgo]

Hi everybody.
I need your help. My question is about the difference between major 6th and major 7th chords.

Here´ what I know:
The difference is, of course, tht one chord has the 6th instead of the 7th.
So Amaj6 is: A C# E F#
and Amaj7 is: A C# E G#

I also know, that if the Major Chord is the tonic, the two can be used interchangeably.


But how do I know which voicing to play? Maybe my ear is to weak but I can´t really hear a stark difference ... I feel that this is a hole in my knowledge and playing that I need to fix.

For example, how do you comp the first bars of "God bless the Child" for a soloist? What voicing(s) do you use? How do you decide when to play maj6 and when maj7?

Thanks for your insights in advance!

Best,
H.

[generalduke]

use major6 instead of major7 when you have the root of the major chord in the melody to avoid the half step between melody and voicing (or minor 9th interval). first chord `all of me` should be major6 when melody is played.

[matt.guitarteacher]

Pick up Mickey Baker's inexpensive book and let your ears and fingers teach you the difference.

Among other things, Maj 7 to Maj 6 implies harmonic movement. Cmaj7-C6-Dm7-Dm6 (play 2 beats each) "works" because it's an inversion of I-vi-ii-V.

Seriously. Mickey Baker. 8 bucks I think?

[Jonah]

Now I think that 6th chord is even more jazzy than maj7th... especially for swing era.

My suggestion is that 6th cam up to substitute maj7th and to prevent minor 2nd between maj7th and tonic in the higher octave (one of the possible cases is root in the melody as general duke pointed out)

Another idea is that in broad voicing like C-A-E-G it gives very smooth relations based on 3rd and 6ths...
Basically 6th chord is inversion of VI-7 chord... only put in different context it has new functional meaning where C is root.
So to me the harmonic sound of two chords C major triad and A-7 covers the minor 7th between G and A and the triadic realtions come forward.

Let me say it like this - it is not a triad but nevertheless it has all the balanced sound qualities of the tonic major triad...

One of the basic quality of classical triad in its basic voicing is that it chould be in 4 voices with doubling root C-E-G-C
It makes it very closed and balanced and reperesents all the logics of functional tonality on 'molecular' level

I suppose that in general the intensive use of 7th chords in jazz was the idea to unbalance this triadic harmony.
They tried to stay in the 4-voiced harmony with modifying 4th voice...
The easiest way is to go for 7th chords which also existed in classical harmony but had - in different degrees - secondary function to triads... originally 7th chords in classical come from moving one of the voices to increase tension/release... that is basically passing tones... and with years some of the chords like dom7th attained very independent satatus per se... but nevertherless they could not match the triad in importance.

And jazz tried to liberate 7th chord from triad dominion.

But it was not so easy ... because jazz kept using general functional tonality logics.

So for root chords they needed something like a triad but still not a classical triad... so 6th chord is very logical solution here both for major and minor root chord...
Simply speaking they just moved the 4th tone (high root in classical triad) down on untill they got accepteble triadic sound with four different tones in a chord.

Maj7th did not fit it in any voicing mostly because 7th was heard a susupention to be resolved...
(modal hearing eventually helped to liberate it)

More logical way to me would be the use of Cmaj9 because it has C maj triad and full E-7 chord in it and again the harmonic sound of two chords melts together and shadows the sharp maj7th or b2 or 4th intervals

I would say even more - 6th sound in imrovization line gives much more authentic swing era sound to me...

So to get into your ears... try to play lines accenting E (making 6th or 3rd jumps in melody) with around over G chord (or even Gmaj7)... you'll hear very distinctive 6th chord sound and its difference from maj7

[Helgo]

use major6 instead of major7 when you have the root of the major chord in the melody to avoid the half step between melody and voicing (or minor 9th interval). first chord `all of me` should be major6 when melody is played.

that makes perfect sense! Thank you!


Also thanks a lot for the video explanation, destinytot!

Matt, which Mickey Baker book do you mean? Mickey Baker's Complete Course in Jazz Guitar: Book 1??
I a not one who has to be persuaded a lot to buy another book

Best,
H.

[Binyomin]

The way I think of it is that the Maj7 chord has a very pretty, very distinctive sound. Maj6 sounds more neutral to me. As pretty as the Maj7 is, you don't always want it. It is such a strong color. It shows up fairly often in pop music. Look at "Hello, it's me" by Todd Rundgren.

[matt.guitarteacher]

Matt, which Mickey Baker book do you mean? Mickey Baker's Complete Course in Jazz Guitar: Book 1??

Yep. that's the one.

[destinytot]

"She loves me, yeah yeah yeah - YEAH (Maj6)!"

[jordanklemons]

use major6 instead of major7 when you have the root of the major chord in the melody to avoid the half step between melody and voicing (or minor 9th interval). first chord `all of me` should be major6 when melody is played.

I'd second this. There are more reasons to use one or the other (or other types of major chords - Maj9, Maj(add2), Maj7#11, etc)... but this is probably the simplest and easy to understand way to start to see the basic different between the two.

[mrcee]

Someone once described the maj6 chord as sounding like it had no teeth.

[jordanklemons]

Someone once described the maj6 chord as sounding like it had no teeth.

I love that and totally hear it mrcee. I also hear a lot of heartache and sadness in the maj7 tonality that I don't hear in the maj6 chord... it's a little less aggressive emotionally (no teeth) and easier to digest. Just so happy. Probably why it works so well as a tonic chord.

[christianm77]

Depends on style/era

As with many things in harmony the evolution of the major seventh chord was taking a passing chord in earlier harmony and making it a thing in its own right.

Back in the 30s for instance you would tend to use the maj7 on a IV chord sometimes or as a passing chord moving to a major 6th, for example.

Gmaj7 G6

This developed IMO from 7-6 voice leading patterns in classical harmony.

In fact the earliest jazz harmony is really just major/minor/dominant/diminished by and large, as far as the comping goes. All the jazz extensions are found in the melody. So johnny st cyr will be playing a straight major while Louis blows all sorts of hip 7s and 9s over the top.

When playing this type of music with specialists they don't want to hear any extra notes in chords that aren't coming out of the voice leading. Even quite late on, harmony chord be pretty simple... Bird reportedly preferred straight minor chords in the harmony much of the time.

Beyond triads, 6th chords are the default choice for swing and early bebop comping. Barry Harris's teaching is that the major 6th chord is the default major sonority.

Anyway later on major 7th chords became used as a comping chord more freely, as do more extended versions of those chords.

I suspect a big driver for this was jazz piano's move away from the left hand/right hand chord/melody traditional approaches towards the more integrated two handed styles of Evans, Hancock, Jarrett etc and the influence of modal sounds as well as the impressionist composers.

I think as guitarists we tend to take our harmonic cues from pianists, although open strings and tunings open some interesting possibilities for guitar oriented harmony.

[christianm77]

I think I killed the thread

[dingusmingus]

No, your response is great. I agree that maj6 feels more swing to me, and maj7 feels later.

[Vladan]

6 is pentatonic.


Sent from VladanMovies @ YouTube

[blille]

I like watch what happens as a tune that uses both, could be a good way to train the ear.

Note that it plays the Maj7 with the root in the melody a couple of times.

[Hep To The Jive]

Someone once described the maj6 chord as sounding like it had no teeth.

But it has balls! Maj7 is 'emo' chord, really.

[christianm77]

I like watch what happens as a tune that uses both, could be a good way to train the ear.

Note that it plays the Maj7 with the root in the melody a couple of times.

Good shout

[Jonah]

I cant help but mentioning Barry Harris again... I am not an adept of his theory but I really admire how well it is elaborated and it is probably the only absolutely logical and musical jazz theory I know... (at least within certain styles of jazz) he really found a key to describe all

So... one thing I especially like in his approach is that it is much around 6th chord (in a way - derivable from 6th chord), - not as opposed to 7th -, but as an essential basic harmony for jazz

[amyFB]

The posts in this thread have been really interesting to read and think about!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[KirkP]

Both the 6th and 6/9 chords are very stable since they contain no half-step or b5 intervals. (In fact, the arpeggio of a 6/9 chord is a pentatonic scale, which is the "no half-steps here" scale!) I tend to play 6th or 6/9 chords when the music calls for stability and consonance.

The half-step interval in a major-7th chords obviously adds some tension, which can be used to either create a sense of forward motion through the chord changes or just to add a general sense of tension for effect. It's a matter of taste of course. As time goes on I've found myself gravitating toward 6th and 6/9 chords by deault, and only play major-7 when I specifically want the added tension.

Edit: Don't be ashamed to simply play a triad if that sounds best to you.

[Jonah]

I will quote myself

Let me say it like this - it is not a triad but nevertheless it has all the balanced sound qualities of the tonic major triad...

My idea they tried to find new sound more intensive than closed 4-voiced classical triad... and it was the best thing they could find

[A. Kingstone]

I cant help but mentioning Barry Harris again... I am not an adept of his theory but I really admire how well it is elaborated and it is probably the only absolutely logical and musical jazz theory I know... (at least within certain styles of jazz) he really found a key to describe all

So... one thing I especially like in his approach is that it is much around 6th chord (in a way - derivable from 6th chord), - not as opposed to 7th -, but as an essential basic harmony for jazz

Right!

Barry would call a Major Seventh 'a Major Sixth with a borrowed diminished note'. (B for C6)

Try borrowing other diminished notes (D/Ab/F) and tell me it doesn't have teeth.

[jordanklemons]

Right!

Barry would call a Major Seventh 'a Major Sixth with a borrowed diminished note'. (B for C6)

Try borrowing other diminished notes (D/Ab/F) and tell me it doesn't have teeth.

Interesting. One of my favorite major tonalities is the Maj9. I've studied BH's system a bit, but never fully adopted the process/method, so I've never thought of the Maj9 as a 6 chord but borrowing the 7 and the 9 from the diminished chord. I think of it as just a G major triad upper structure sitting above a basic C major or CMaj7 lower structure. I love the quality of it though as the addition of the 9 (the diminished borrowed note in Barry's view) softens out the Maj7 quality. I suppose you could say it has no teeth. It feels almost like a sigh of relief when I hear it... as opposed to the maj7 which has a lot of weight and sadness to it.

[mr. beaumont]

Interesting. One of my favorite major tonalities is the Maj9. I've studied BH's system a bit, but never fully adopted the process/method, so I've never thought of the Maj9 as a 6 chord but borrowing the 7 and the 9 from the diminished chord. I think of it as just a G major triad upper structure sitting above a basic C major or CMaj7 lower structure. I love the quality of it though as the addition of the 9 (the diminished borrowed note in Barry's view) softens out the Maj7 quality. I suppose you could say it has no teeth. It feels almost like a sigh of relief when I hear it... as opposed to the maj7 which has a lot of weight and sadness to it.

I do like the maj9...and the 6/9...man, that chord.

Crazy, that the maj7 can sound so heavy...but especially if you put the root and maj7 in the same octave...dang...mystery.

Sorry, had to chime in...I'm a chord nerd.