Gary Burton masterclass video

**Jonah** · 08-30-2016, 10:43 AM

I did not find any links to this on the forum so I dicided to share

Though by the moment I came across it I already more or less knew the theory he explained... it was still a pleasure to listen and watch...

I liked especially his metaphors and comparisons that should evoke really musical applications of scale theory...
The final part with students playing and analyze is really cool too...

Actually I should say that my personal 'revelation' about chord-scales theory is partly connected with Gary Burton... I did not accept CST for years and then I read Pat Metheny interview where he partly mentioned how he used scales and then said that he learnt a lot from Gary about it and that you could actully write down consequence of any occasional chords you want - whatever - and Gary would immediately find and imply scales relations and the way to organize it musically...
This actually was the point when I got what it was about and moved on.

**Boston Joe** · 08-30-2016, 01:04 PM

Great video! It's long but there's not a lot visual stuff going on, so you can put it on and listen to it while you're doing other stuff.

My own view of CST: There are basically two ways to look at music theory. The classical way is basically giving names to things that composers have done, for the purpose of understanding them and why they work the way they do. The jazz way has many of the same elements, but the purpose is to give the improvisor an awareness of what's going on, and to suggest possibilities for what to do with it.

To that extent, it seems wise to me to have as many different ways of looking at a musical situation as possible. CST is one of those ways.

My own default is to think primarily in extended chordal terms. E.g. if I see a Maj7 chord, I'm thinking of Root, 3,5,7,9,11,13. It's the same notes as the C Major scale, but thought of in a chordal way. I know that in certain situations, I want to keep away from the 11, and in certain other situations, I want to use a #11, and that a #5 is also available. But sometimes you want to do a scalar run up to a note, and at those times, I might be more comfortable thinking about those notes as a major scale (or lydian or lydian augmented).

So I like being able to think of things both ways. And more: Pentatonics, triad pairs, etc. Whatever you got. Learn them all.

The main problem with CST is that people tend to sound like they're playing scales. I liked how Burton talked about mixing up the notes and developing enough fluency with the scale to be able to pick and choose your notes and permutations. Scofield talks about something similar in one of his videos. He encourages students to practice scales in 3rds, 4ths, 5ths, 6ths, etc.

A sufficiently creative person can make any system work. A creative person who knows a lot of systems has a lot of ways to make things work.

**Paulie2** · 08-31-2016, 11:26 AM

Thanks so much for sharing. Enjoying listening to this at work with my morning coffee.

stworzenie · 08-31-2016, 02:04 PM

24:49 - it was one chord?Only one?And what he has doing with that "one chord"?

in the context of what Gary said in 35:35

**Jonah** · 08-31-2016, 02:49 PM

24:49 - it was one chord?Only one?

No

**Boston Joe** · 08-31-2016, 03:58 PM

Originally Posted by stworzenie

24:49 - it was one chord?Only one?

I think he said "One chorus."

stworzenie · 08-31-2016, 05:14 PM

Chord,chorus,anyway,what it was next
He take four notes (from one chord 1,3,5,7) and repeat based on which rule?
Progression, modulation,transposition?

If the main theme will be the phrase with d,f,a,c notes
then what should I do with this if I want imitating Gary in 24:49?

**Jonah** · 08-31-2016, 06:11 PM

He take four notes (from one chord 1,3,5,7) and repeat based on which rule?
Progression, modulation,transposition?

He takes descending arpeggio and ascending arpeggio with resolution in certain rythmic shape and then use them playing through changes of Green Dolphin Streer slightly variating rythm...

the concept is to outline harmony, keep basic melodi idea and develope it to keep it interesting

**JonR** · 09-01-2016, 06:56 AM

I've seen that video before. It's definitely got a lot of great stuff in it, but what struck me - in terms of CST - is that he although he paid lip service to he idea, he didn't seem particularly committed to it; as if he wasn't quite sure he believed in it himself. I thought that was encouraging.
That is, he seemed to have an intelligent, somewhat detached view of it as just one way of looking at (and categorizing) the material in a tune. There's a whole lot more to improvising than that.

**Jonah** · 09-01-2016, 12:52 PM

I've seen that video before. It's definitely got a lot of great stuff in it, but what struck me - in terms of CST - is that he although he paid lip service to he idea, he didn't seem particularly committed to it; as if he wasn't quite sure he believed in it himself. I thought that was encouraging.
.

Probably you are right that he did not get deeper into that. But from other sources I heard he is one of the most scale-based players in jazz...

Wha I personally disagreed in this video is how he categorizes the idea of audience perception and then leads to the concept of kind of 'meeting audience's expetations'...

with that I disagree basically and I think it is wrong to explain it this way to the students.

It concerns not practial realization but concept as it is... you should be able to sound clear, to outline harmony and develope melody and all.. but it is not because general audiance presumable can hear only general things in music. You should do it for yourself only.

**emanresu** · 09-01-2016, 12:55 PM

He mentions Getz doing it all mostly by ear and not knowing the nuts and bolts really.

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 09-01-2016, 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by Jonah

Probably you are right that he did not get deeper into that. But from other sources I heard he is one of the most scale-based players in jazz...

Gary Burton has always struck me as having an amazing sense of rhythm. Not that that can't be combined with CST, but when the rhythm is happening you can play most anything!

**cosmic gumbo** · 09-01-2016, 01:28 PM

This video has been posted many times on the forum in the past, and should be posted again every time it fades from memory. Burton has a gift, and knows how to identify and present important concepts in a practical way.

**Jonah** · 09-01-2016, 01:31 PM

Gary Burton has always struck me as having an amazing sense of rhythm. Not that that can't be combined with CST, but when the rhythm is happening you can play most anything!

yes
but still almost anything.. 'this almost' is also difference of jazz from common dance music for me

**Jonah** · 09-01-2016, 01:33 PM

He mentions Getz doing it all mostly by ear and not knowing the nuts and bolts really.

it's always simpler to learn not doing what greats did not do than doing what they did)))

**emanresu** · 09-01-2016, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by Jonah

it's always simpler to learn not doing what greats did not do than doing what they did)))

I've seen that vid and the thing he said "creating imprint of the patterns in your brain" put me off. I did learn like that, hated it so much and quit for years because it seemed the only way to play jazz correctly. But that's just me.

**Jonah** · 09-01-2016, 02:52 PM

I've seen that vid and the thing he said "creating imprint of the patterns in your brain" put me off. I did learn like that, hated it so much and quit for years because it seemed the only way to play jazz correctly. But that's just me.

For me it's mot than that... too complex and multifold... I cannot even define it... I cannot even say what 'playing jazz correctly' is for me...

stworzenie · 09-01-2016, 06:20 PM

the concept is to outline harmony, keep basic melodi idea and develope it to keep it interesting

Hmmmm...let's go back to my theme f,c,a,d
and know what can I do wit this?

I can play:
1-d,f,a,c
2-c,a,f,d
3-a,c,f,d
4-c,f,d,a

Or transformation
1' c,e,g,b
2' e,c,a,f
3' g,b,e,c
4' b,e,c,g

or 1'' d#,f#,a#,c#
2'' b,g#,e,c# etc?

Everything under accompaniment: d minor, G7, C major

**Jonah** · 09-02-2016, 05:31 AM

Developing motive is not just mathematical combinations of given notes..

it depends on hearing much more...

There should be something that allows your hearing to trace its realtion to original motive...

What would it be? Itervalic relations? Rythmic structure? When does it lose this connection and become independent motive and entity? How we hear it is what makes dramatic development of music based on motivic development...

Besides it can be combined with traditional harmonic development as it wasin classical especially after Beethoven... (very seldom for Mozart who almost never used motives as a cell for deveolpmetn thinking more of spacious melody and intensive harmonic development - one of the few exceptions is famous 40 symphony 1st movement theme)

This way of development became common in 20th century composition when tonality became less important

One of the best piece ofalmot pure motivic development

**zdub** · 09-02-2016, 08:35 AM

Check out Gary Burton's Berklee course on improvisation here:

https://www.coursera.org/learn/jazz-improvisation

It's free, unless you want a certificate.

(I started it, but then got sidetracked with a couple of other Berklee courses there; all were excellent.)

stworzenie · 09-02-2016, 03:50 PM

What should I do if I want star this course?
I must sign up there first?

**zdub** · 09-03-2016, 11:32 AM

Yes, you must sign up with your email address. But again, there is no charge unless you want a certificate.

stworzenie · 09-03-2016, 09:08 PM

I logged but when I want download this PDF

I cant

**zdub** · 09-03-2016, 10:21 PM

https://www.coursera.org/learn/jazz-improvisation

**Jonah** · 09-04-2016, 01:53 AM

stworzenie,

as I can see when you sign up you're enrolled for a sesseion. I just signed up (I am not sure I will go for it - just tried to check) and it says the session begins Sep 19 - Nov 6

It has program tasks etc -it's not just downloadable pdf