Why is this bebop?

[christianm77]

Then you are not doing it right. You have to remember th at when you record yourself practicing something you need to listen for the thing your are practicing and not anything else. That's the point of recording yourself practicing, and you should not need distance to be able to judge it. Waiting a week for something like this would make it completely pointless, I almost feel like telling you to "grow up" But I do recognize that it takes getting used to.

Jens

. I have been listening to recordings of myself during practice for almost ten years. I feel I have done it too much.

I think we may agree in that I think it can be a useful tool for me, with caveats. In terms of general listening to my playing while improvising in the practice room, that makes me neurotic and introspective. It is bad for me.

In terms of listening back to my playing for specific issues, say execution of triplets in a be bop head or something like that, it is useful. Sometimes I listen to it to hear how straight my quavers are, how even my articulation is, etc, so good for details.

But in terms of listening back to yourself to see how swinging you are? Doesn't work for me. Anything that's subjective is impossible for me to judge. You can make a call about how accurate/even etc your playing is, not whether it is good or bad. And of course the harder you listen the more you can hear to improve.

I find it can be too much of an introspective activity, and I try not to do it too much. I do think I have a good general idea of what I'd like to improve in my playing from listening to it. I think it is probably better to have someone who's opinion you value listen to you and advise... Which can be hard.

[JensL]

In terms of listening back to my playing for specific issues, say execution of triplets in a be bop head or something like that, it is useful. Sometimes I listen to it to hear how straight my quavers are, how even my articulation is, etc, so good for details.

But in terms of listening back to yourself to see how swinging you are? Doesn't work for me. Anything that's subjective is impossible for me to judge. You can make a call about how accurate/even etc your playing is, not whether it is good or bad. And of course the harder you listen the more you can hear to improve.

Sure, if you have decided that it doesn't work for you then don't do it.

If you want to try then I'd suggest you record yourself playing with a metronome, 1 chorus of a standard or 2 for a blues? Keep it short, otherwise listening back is going to take too long and require too much work. Don't only do heads also solos. The tricky part is to listen for one thing and not getting lost in all the other stuff (for good and bad..)

Most things we judge in music are subjective, do you think Jim Hall and Pat Martino have the same concept of overplaying? That Coltrane and Paul Desmond have the same idea of melodic? I think you will find that swing is less subjective than what you state here, but I can of course only guess.

Jens

[christianm77]

Sure, if you have decided that it doesn't work for you then don't do it.

If you want to try then I'd suggest you record yourself playing with a metronome, 1 chorus of a standard or 2 for a blues? Keep it short, otherwise listening back is going to take too long and require too much work. Don't only do heads also solos. The tricky part is to listen for one thing and not getting lost in all the other stuff (for good and bad..)

Most things we judge in music are subjective, do you think Jim Hall and Pat Martino have the same concept of overplaying? That Coltrane and Paul Desmond have the same idea of melodic? I think you will find that swing is less subjective than what you state here, but I can of course only guess.

Jens

I have done this extensively. Maybe I got something out of it...

Oh btw, one interesting exercise you may have tried is when you play a solo with no click and then comp with it. This I would recommend, but only as a tool of diagnosis...

I do listen to my gig recordings a fair bit after a week or two and that gives me a pretty reasonable idea of where I am at. However there can be a lot psychology at work. Also your analysis is limited by your own perceptions. 10 years ago I couldn't hear rhythm in detail, now I can more so, but I expect my perception to improve. Usually I focus on rythms- poor execution, rushing etc, but no doubt I am missing other areas. That's why a fresh perspective is important. Such as a teacher.

In terms of working out if you accurately playing a rhythm in isolation, say, that's pretty quantifiable. Which makes it a great practice exercise imo.

Anyway, with all respect to your extensive posts, but I think you mistook my petulant moan for a more mature appeal for advice on developing my swing. Believe me I've tried anything I've had suggested to me! And yes, it has got better over the years.

I would be bang up for an extensive discussion on ways to develop time/feel on another forum with a helpful title. It would be good to get a load of ideas posted up... I think it is the most important subject.

[JensL]

I have done this extensively. Maybe I got something out of it...

Oh btw, one interesting exercise you may have tried is when you play a solo with no click and then comp with it. This I would recommend, but only as a tool of diagnosis...

I do listen to my gig recordings a fair bit after a week or two and that gives me a pretty reasonable idea of where I am at. However there can be a lot psychology at work. Also your analysis is limited by your own perceptions. 10 years ago I couldn't hear rhythm in detail, now I can more so, but I expect my perception to improve. Usually I focus on rythms- poor execution, rushing etc, but no doubt I am missing other areas. That's why a fresh perspective is important. Such as a teacher.

In terms of working out if you accurately playing a rhythm in isolation, say, that's pretty quantifiable. Which makes it a great practice exercise imo.

Anyway, with all respect to your extensive posts, but I think you mistook my petulant moan for a more mature appeal for advice on developing my swing. Believe me I've tried anything I've had suggested to me! And yes, it has got better over the years.

I would be bang up for an extensive discussion on ways to develop time/feel on another forum with a helpful title. It would be good to get a load of ideas posted up... I think it is the most important subject.

I wasn't really trying to interpret you as a person just reacting to what you wrote. It's fine if it doesn't work for you.

This is/was for me the most effective way to work on this, it really helped me locking in much better with rhythm sections in different styles of music.

I would be interested to hear other approaches to work on this but I don't really know any.

Jens

[christianm77]

I wasn't really trying to interpret you as a person just reacting to what you wrote. It's fine if it doesn't work for you.

This is/was for me the most effective way to work on this, it really helped me locking in much better with rhythm sections in different styles of music.

I would be interested to hear other approaches to work on this but I don't really know any.

Jens

Well let's set up a forum and see what comes up...