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I come from the point of view that atonal music does not exist as we label it (this is an argument that Bruce Arnold can make better than I because he actually plays Schoenberg and Webern). I also come from the perspective that jazz is a key based form, but we need to expand our definition of key center to more than just major or minor. I understand that these are ideas that go against what is commonly taught, but the more I investigate these concepts (from Charlie Banaco's and Bruce Arnold) the more I find truth in their conception.
The best way to go about this is to sing the progression against a drone.
I went into how to approach singing through Stella, at least until the first hint of "home base in Bb major", in an earlier post in the thread. If you are curious, try it.
At first it seems foreign, but give it a week. The notes will take on a new meaning.
Until then, whatever works is whatever works. Bruce Arnold also taught me that everyone hears music differently. As long as the ears become the final decision maker, and not the eyes, than you're on to something.
But, then again, I may ruffle feathers by saying that the ear is the final judgement call and not theory. That's okay as well. As I've said before, difference is the spice of life. I like spicy food
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12-26-2015 08:55 PM
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irez87- I come from the point of view that atonal music does not exist as we label it
exactly!
see every non western tradition in music
the birds on a wire tradition..is a limited assumption...as sun ra said- space is the place
between every "western" note are a thousand tones..why not explore them?
a passing fire engine clanging is always a good point of practicing departure
as are foghorns, dog barks and bird chirps...
inspiration thru sound is a light not a limit
cheers
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But who says atonal?irez87- I come from the point of view that atonal music does not exist as we label it
come from the point of view that atonal music does not exist as we label it (this is an argument that Bruce Arnold can make better than I because he actually plays Schoenberg and Webern). I also come from the perspective that jazz is a key based form, but we need to expand our definition of key center to more than just major or minor. I understand that these are ideas that go against what is commonly taught, but the more I investigate these concepts (from Charlie Banaco's and Bruce Arnold) the more I find truth in their conception.
These are general assumptions... to me it's a bit strange to presume that some piece is tonal only because I might think that 'jazz is key based' and 'atonal music does not exist'... I mean we have a pice of music and ears and some apparatus to explain what we hear if we want..
It's much more simple too me if we look at music as an art concept... (not just sounds) - like literature for example.
It makes meanings.. it expresses meanings (when I say 'meaning' I do not mean verbalization).
And if we consider music is concept based on sound... then there are other ways beyond tonal tension\release relations to express meanings.
Even 'tension/release' concept as it is has classical dramatic essence in it (classical I mean classicism in art in general.. the most concemtrated example of it is the sonata form in music). But there were other relations too...
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In GS...
though I know about thh changes and all... I still hear there the melody first... and I like it as a tune)))
It uses three motives troughout
1) descending maj7 arpeggio with minor 3rd back up at the end
2) sus4 resolution (harmonized with ii-v)...
3) three note motive derived form the 1st and 2nd -- (last bar of the 1st motive added after the 2nd motive) - exactly this motive conncets sections A and B... 2nd motive in bar 8 is treated at the same time as the deginning if the 3rd motive continued in th 9th bar
At fast tempo it sounds to me like melody harmnized with chords, not like changes that gave melody as a result... that impulse at the beginning is so strong (and enforced even more by ii-v in G)
that it makes me hear as it always wants to return to Gmaj7 chord...
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Originally Posted by Irez87
Simple.
A key is the home base of the tune.
Jazz is key dependent.
D dorian is a key, IMO.
so is C whole tone
A key is a collection of notes that all melody and harmony orbit around in a certain piece of music. The key center creates the gravitational pull that keeps everything connected in beautiful cohesion.
"Fall" has a key center (though I never analyzed it)
"Giant Steps" is most definitely in B major
"Stella" is in Bb major (with hints of the relative minor)
Classical music operates the same way, but classical music is built off of long form pieces. Therefore, classical pieces give the ear an opportunity for true modulation to and from the home key.
In jazz, 90% of the time, what we theorize as modulation is actually tonicization to the ear
Then again, everyone hears differently. But, if you can train you ear to hold on to key center, then you will be able to exploit the gravitational pull of notes and harmonies away from that key center.
That, fellow forum-ites of all things musical on the cigar box, is how we create interest in music. Tension and release. Strong beat weak beat. Musical phrases. Cadences. All that good stuff that treats our ears.
Bruce Arnold explains this better than I... I would love to find an old tape or recording of Charlie Banaco's teaching the concept in its infancy. That would be like... well, that would be like seeing the image of background radiation from the big bang... Know what I am saying?
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