Great books for jazz guitar arpeggios?

**Goofsus4** · 11-10-2008, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by richb2

Here what I think that I need to learn and in this order:

ear training (to understand what "13th sound" sounds like)
chord construction
arpeggios
modes

What do you guys think? Do I have this out of order? Anything else I missed? And do you gys know of a good jazz guitar teacher in Northern Bergen County, NJ, USA?

You can bring all that along together, and you should. I would put chord contruction theory at the top of the list, though. Once you know how chords are constructed and understand intervals (which is discussed as part of chord theory), then everything else will start making a whole lot more sense to you.

Consider looking at everything as an intervallic formula and you will see the relationships between chords, arps, and scales/modes much more clearly.

In your G7 example, for instance:

The intervallic formula for a G7 is 1,3,5,b7

The G7 arp is the same intervals: 1,3,5,b7 which is why every note in an arpeggio sounds great over it's related chord. You are just playing the chord note by note all over the fretboard.

When you start looking at the major modes (or any mode), I would strongly recommend that you not get sidetracked with all the complicated explanations of how the modes are derived. At least not at first. Instead, just look at their intervallic formula and treat them as a scale and it will be very easy for you to understand, and more importantly, use the modes to make music.

For example,

What mode would sound good over the G7?

The Mixolydian mode's formula is: 1,2,3,4,5,6,b7

It has all of the intervals of the G7 chord and arp plus you pick up the 2(9), 4(11), and 6(13). All those intervals will sound decent over the G7 so any phrases constructed using Mixolydian are going to be fine.

That's my approach, at least, and once I started looking at everything as an intervallic formula it was like someone turned on a light bulb in a dim room.

But it all starts with chord contruction theory.

**richb2** · 11-12-2008, 10:28 PM

The reason most jazz guys play arpeggios from the 3-9 and not the root-9 is that is gets the attention away from the root. When we think of these things as 9th arpeggios then we tend to work off of or around the root. But the m7b5 off of the third allows us to work off of and around the third, a more "jazzy" note.

Can someone explain to me what this means?

**Sailor** · 11-12-2008, 10:40 PM

I'll try since I was asking a lot of the questions! Playing the 9th arp as R-3-5-7-9 focuses on the root. Playing off the 3rd changes the sound and using 3-5-7-9, off a 9th chord, creates a m7b5 chord.

I hope I'm right.

Sailor

**m78w** · 11-12-2008, 10:43 PM

that's it, say you have a Gm7-C7 chord progression and you decide to play the 3-9 arpeggio from the C7, you would get E G Bb D, or the 3-5-7-9 of C7, but also the 6 3 R 5, or a Gm6, chord. So it fits well over a ii-V progression and is found in a lot of idiomatic jazz phrases.

MW

**Sailor** · 11-13-2008, 01:13 AM

Matt does this mean an Em7b5 could sub for Gm7 -C7??

sailor

**m78w** · 11-13-2008, 01:43 AM

I wouldn't call it a sub, just an arpeggio choice. Though a great way to comp a Gm7-C7 is to play Gm7-Em7b5, like this on the top four stings.

F Bb D G

E Bb D G

There's only one note difference so the voice leading is great. As well you can also put the A on top of one or both of those chords to spice things up a bit.

MW

**Sailor** · 11-13-2008, 11:14 AM

Cool - but can a m7b5 sub for a dominant i.e. Gm7(ii), Em7b5( V sub), FM7 I ??

Also can you explain something I just found; any diminshed chord can be replaced by a ii - V ??

Thanks Sailor

**m78w** · 11-13-2008, 11:20 AM

Sure you can sub that chord, but it would work better with a bass player, still it could be used in a solo piece. I would say try it out, you may like the sound or you may not, so see what you think about that type of sound.

A cool thing to do over a 2-5-1 is:

Bbmaj7(Gm7)-Em7b5/Bb(C7)-Am7(Fmaj7)

So the Bbmaj7 is the 3-9 chord of Gm7, the Em7b5/Bb is the 3-9 of C7 and the Am7 is the 3-7 of Fmaj7.

Try voicing them on the top four strings like:

Bb F A D - Bbmaj7

Bb E G D - Em7b5

A E G C - Fmaj7

Cool voice leading.

As far as the diminished chord, you can sub a diminished 7th chord off of the 3rd of any dominant chord. I wouldn't try it over the 2 chord though.

MW

**Sailor** · 11-13-2008, 04:08 PM

Thanks a lot Matt - these little pieces of wisdom are gold! In my Arnie Berle book he says " a dominant7 chord may be preceded by a iim7 chord so we can place Ebm7 in front of Ab7; two chords in place of one. The sub for Cdim7 is Ebm7 -Ab7." I guess this is what I was asking about and the practicality and useage of.

Sailor

**happyjack** · 12-27-2008, 09:15 PM

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Happyjack

**richb2** · 01-10-2009, 02:34 PM

I have a DVD called Jazz Anatomy by Mimi Fox where she is talking about 2-5-1 progressions. Which in this case is a m7, 7, maj7. She states that you must have the arpeggios for these three type of chords in all 5 positions on the neck memorized. She then mentions "Arpeggios for Jazz Standards" as a place where these arps are documented.

When I learned the CAGED system, I used the chord in each position as a memory aid in learning the pent in that position. I would like to do the same for the m7,7, and maj7. But I only know 4 positions for the m7, 3 for the 7, and maybe 3 for the maj7. Is there some chart which shows all 5 positions of the CAGED chords for the m7, the 7th, and the maj7th?

**pierre richard** · 01-10-2009, 04:46 PM

Check out Jamey Abersold website and the Mel Bay catalog...both have wonderful books (some with cd) on this phase of jazz guitar playing....

time on the instrument...pierre

**music_tech** · 01-10-2009, 08:50 PM

If you know all your diatonic chords then you wouldnt need books to work out your arpeggios. If you know your music theory then you can easily work them out on your guitar. They are all just stacked in 3rds.

**richb2** · 01-10-2009, 09:34 PM

Thanks. That's very insightful.

**happyjack** · 01-11-2009, 07:24 AM

ah music 3+3=5+3=7+3=9+3=11+3=13

**EarlBrother** · 02-12-2016, 06:48 PM

Its a gift idea from a friend for a friend.I recommended Warnocks Book.Maybe they will go that way.As rightfully impressed with the incredible Mimi that they are.We'll see.Thanks a lot for the response!!!!!E

**matt.guitarteacher** · 02-12-2016, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by happyjack

ah music 3+3=5+3=7+3=9+3=11+3=13

This may be the best post ever. Hate I missed it the first time. :-)

**edh** · 02-13-2016, 03:05 AM

O.k., call me stupid. But what does the above 3+3=5+3... mean?

thanks from stupid.

**NSJ** · 02-13-2016, 03:51 AM

Originally Posted by edh

O.k., call me stupid. But what does the above 3+3=5+3... mean?

thanks from stupid.

Dude. New math. Building harmony and chords by Stacking thirds.

**EarlBrother** · 02-13-2016, 08:28 AM

Stupid people do not ask reasonable questions.Its not instant.I venture to say we all had to ask that at some point.You are probably already doing it.C D E=1 2 3/ E F G (starting with E)=123 results in C E G the triad of C maj.From the G, the 5th of C, count 123 G A B.B is the 7th of C. C D E F G A BNow i will go get my Shot-in-the Dark sip it till i wake up and see what i missed. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7th.

**matt.guitarteacher** · 02-13-2016, 09:17 AM

Originally Posted by edh

O.k., call me stupid. But what does the above 3+3=5+3... mean?

thanks from stupid.

It's not stupid. The original statement was a little silly. Just funny.

Measuring intervals isn't really addition like that anyway. C to E= 3rd, E to G= 3rd, C to G= 5th. Anyway it's a false measurement of two different standards to say that there's a conflict. There isn't.

Intervals, honestly, are the most confusing way to discuss harmony, anyway. Just know that it's stacked thirds and talk in terms of scale degrees.

But there's no conflict. Pretend it isn't music for a moment....

Just math.
C D E: what's the 3rd letter?
E F G: what's the 3rd letter?
C D E F G: what's the 5th letter?

That doesn't mean that 3+3=5. It's just measuring position intervallically. Intervals are not a measure "value" or something. Just position. That's why it's easiest to talk in terms of the "constant", the root (C, in this example).

C D E F G A B C D E F G A
What's the 3rd letter?...the 5th, 7th etc.?