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My hope is to build a more intuitive command on playing arpeggios (voice leading also) on a single string when improvising since I find playing on a single string makes me tend to play step wise motion a lot. Also I like the idea of building up from 1 string to 2 and 3 strings when working through this stuff
Originally Posted by pamosmusic
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10-30-2024 07:23 PM
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It does sound a little far-fetched, but I am just finishing up my notation of Dave Creamer's Moment's Notice study, and parts of require you to do what you're suggesting - but if you're not playing a phrase that spans, say, 8 frets or so, you'll always play one note of an arpeggio on a second string -- Dave Creamer Exercises Originally Posted by jazznylon
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I wouldn't say I work on it as an exercise, but I'd like to play more by moving up and down the neck. I've found that I have to practice with bigger leaps. Sometimes single note lines, other times by using chords (especially because some fingerings work on certain sets of strings but are awkward on other sets). It's another way to visualize the fretboard. Originally Posted by jazznylon
Plus, it often sounds better (or at least have a different sound)! A on 5th fret high E sounds different than the same A on the 10th fret of the B string, and so forth.
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Going through the single string thing but now with seventh arpeggios. It should be easier now since I don't have to deal with larger skips more often. My favorite cycle is cycle 4, it sounds classical to me in a way. I'm skipping the other scales at the moment so I can hone in on the sound of the major scale more deeply
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Yeah I mean … I think it’s cool. I guess I figure there’s limited time and this is one of those things that’s such a practical skill that I’d like to work on it in a more straightforwardly practical way. But I do some weird stuff too, so not sure why I draw the line there
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As jimmy blue note indicated for tertial chords the cycle 6/3 is the easiest to start with as only one note changes between chords.
The equivalent for quartal is the cycle 4
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jazznylon, I think there is some value in addressing this material from multiple angles. The single string thing addresses shifting and visualizing the fingerboard from a different perspective. Unlike positions which cross over the asymmetrical G-B divide, each single string behaves intervallically equivalent.
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Single string treatment of these cycles could be extremely useful as a means to break out of strict positional playing, and to approach the ear trained awareness of a singer. One might question the utility of this exercise but the real value of these books is what the individual can get out of them. Originally Posted by jazznylon
I've known lots of horn players that gained great facility and intuitive harmonic insight from treating these chords as arpeggios, and for my own, I have begun to learn these four part chords as triads over bass notes (bass note followed by three notes played together) and this creates a perspective of the chords completely unique.
I'm intrigued by your take on these cycles although I think this approach might be well suited to a viola or violin with a shorter scale, do share how these progress and what you get from this endeavour.
There were many times I'd run what were challenging and sometimes counter intuitive ways of approaching Mick's materials (making a solo guitar arrangement of a duet piece, different voicings based on the cycles, etc) and Mick always paused for a while, furrowed his brow, note "I'd never tried that" and then add "let me know if that works out."
The deeper you get into your own take, the more it seems this material was made for you.
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Are you thinking what I’m thinking?
Tapping licks!
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Here's a fun little thing that I did. I gave the cycles numbers 1-6, wrote out 7 types of triads which I numbered 1-7. Then a random number generator showed me which cycle to play with which type of triad. The challenge then was to voice-lead the whole thing.
Read the description in the video to see exactly what I'm playing.
Such fun
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Here is another....based on the last line of spread triads in volume 3 ( before the Analyse This section).
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I'm going to host a Zoom this Sunday March 23 2025, 2PM EST
I'm going to talk about approaches to teaching/learning harmonic movement, discuss the Goodchord Almanac cycles and how teaching dynamic harmony can be looked at in different ways, as well as an open discussion of advancing harmony in theory and practice.
All are welcome and all are encouraged to contribute if you're inclined.
Launch Meeting - Zoom
Passcode shouldn't be required, but if you're prompted, it's: Passcode575017
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I'm going to host a Zoom this Sunday March 23 2025, 2PM EST
I'm going to talk about approaches to teaching/learning harmonic movement, discuss the Goodchord Almanac cycles and how teaching dynamic harmony can be looked at in different ways, as well as an open discussion of advancing harmony in theory and practice.
All are welcome and all are encouraged to contribute if you're inclined.
Launch Meeting - Zoom
Passcode shouldn't be required, but if you're prompted, it's: Passcode575017
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Missing the discussions on this thread.
A guitar mentor of mine Ted Dunbar had many sayings. One was that for every page you read (or idea encountered) you should write 10 of your own. Now it is not like Mick didn't contribute enough pages to occupy a lifetimes work....
To break out of the practicing only 1 drop family on it's own I more recently been playing with different approaches to integrate different voicing spreads together. The PDF shows 2 strategies to integrate the 3 most guitar friendly drop families.Last edited by bako; 11-07-2025 at 05:14 PM.
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Hi Bako,
It's great to hear from you. Yes it's sad to see this thread go quiet – here's an idea, below, that will easily generate ten more ideas for you.
I've been trying to go 'off book' by internalising this material as much as possible, these days. Some of the little gems at the back of Almanac Vol. 3 are perfect material for this approach, they're usually moderately challenging but often quite guitaristic, with some profound implications – e.g. for starters, this one will unpack into four different harmonised sequences using the 'minor third axis' scale tones of the four TBN 1 chords (the major keys of C Eb Gb and A).
The slash chord names might confuse people: I'm telling myself to think of these TBN chords as 'triads with a bonus note' since the notes are regularly inverted with the note after the slash mixed into the triad – after all, it's more about the sounds and their flavors/functions than it is about their names. I've written long notes but it's mainly to get the chord shapes down - as always, play these entirely your own way and make them your own ... etc. etc.
Hope this sparks some interest out there, the Analyze This section of Vol 3 is another useful route back into the Vol 1 & 2 concepts, (eg 'Joe's 2+2 thing') as well.
All the best,
Mick W
Last edited by Mick Wright; 11-07-2025 at 06:57 PM. Reason: attachment correction!
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I was about to breathe some fresh breath into this monster of a thread! Great ideas!
I'm about to put together a series of cycle based "turnaround alternatives" in concise easy to follow forms, maybe with a specific piece so anyone can see how these cycle based harmonies can fit and be practiced to work over our own treatment of standards.
I'm considering what piece might be a good candidate. Mick Wright, maybe we can do this sub-thread together, make a mini book here and you can use your graphic wizardry to provide notation and chord grids.
The idea of convergence, of II V I as being viewed as but one option in our viewing of a piece, and learning through examples provided to construct a set of harmonic voice led alternatives... fingered on different string sets or even with closed and open triads that open up the options of adding a voice... Heh heh, call it the Monderization of harmony...
It looks like the potential to really open up this thread.
What do you think?
Any candidates for a piece that could be put under the scalpal? Autumn Leaves is the (too) obvious choice for a traditional model, Falling Grace would be a Mick-ish choice.
Suggestions would be welcome.
Gosh, what would we be getting ourselves into?
Anyone think this'd be a good study group here?
Embed or devote a completely new thread?
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Might best be a new thread so that a newcomer doesn’t think they have to read through all 33 pages of posts to understand the context of what you are presenting.
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This sounds great - maybe we can do both songs in parallel? Perhaps with a radical starting point, using just the first chord of each song? Following on from Bako's comment about guitar-friendly voicings, I'm thinking of the various voicing options for the first D7 on Autumn Leaves (the pick-up phrase) and for the the Abmaj7 on Falling Grace. I'll sketch a few ideas out, tonight... so we've six possible voicings of each seventh chord, in four inversions, and then there's the #11 and other alterations, extensions etc. before we get to approach/companion chords, substitutions and pedal tones ... Maybe best in a new parallel thread – what are we getting into here? Originally Posted by Jimmy blue note
All the best, Mick W
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Noice. Originally Posted by Mick Wright
Hi Bako,
It's great to hear from you. Yes it's sad to see this thread go quiet – here's an idea, below, that will easily generate ten more ideas for you.
I've been trying to go 'off book' by internalising this material as much as possible, these days. Some of the little gems at the back of Almanac Vol. 3 are perfect material for this approach, they're usually moderately challenging but often quite guitaristic, with some profound implications – e.g. for starters, this one will unpack into four different harmonised sequences using the 'minor third axis' scale tones of the four TBN 1 chords (the major keys of C Eb Gb and A).
The slash chord names might confuse people: I'm telling myself to think of these TBN chords as 'triads with a bonus note' since the notes are regularly inverted with the note after the slash mixed into the triad – after all, it's more about the sounds and their flavors/functions than it is about their names. I've written long notes but it's mainly to get the chord shapes down - as always, play these entirely your own way and make them your own ... etc. etc.
Hope this sparks some interest out there, the Analyze This section of Vol 3 is another useful route back into the Vol 1 & 2 concepts, (eg 'Joe's 2+2 thing') as well.
All the best,
Mick W
I've been playing with these sorts of chords (originally after Lage Lund's influence) for a while but these super spaced voicings are especially pretty, though probs for composition than comping lol. Maybe the latter with sufficient volume swell and effects.
I can't be bothered to specify which drops they are - but the first voicings is a spread triad on the non triadic bass note.
These can be understood as major 'quadratonics' (maj add 4), or as I most often use them, as a sub for maj7 and (m)maj7 as a maj7sus2 tonality. So a 4th to a triad or swap the 2nd for the 3rd in a seventh chord (I find the TBN nomenclature doesn't really stick in my head.)
Here's a tune I wrote ages ago based on this simple concept. Notice that the melody line is mostly based around stacks of 2nds and 4ths, which I think is a concept I got from Ben Monder. 100 jazz points if you can spot what standard it's based on. The chord symbols look stupid.
Mount Inari | Christian Miller Quartet | Christian Miller
Given this is currently on the set list for 'Rage Against the Tagine' (The current incarnation of the CMQ - more anon) I will have to get your voicings going through the tune. I'll get back to you when I've worked it out.
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Hey all, sorry to jump in here as a complete newbie, but I've just come across this material and I feel like I'm trying to decode another language.
For background I'm newish to guitar, semi new to jazz, and generally a novice at music theory.
For the first triad exercise, I'm honestly confused as to how it's supposed to be tackled.
I see and (mostly?) understand that it lists shifting between each chord with 5 -> 3, 3->1, 1->5, etc. but am I to just.. start anywhere? Work out a closed C maj triad and shift it to Dmin triad with the aforementioned formula? Just keep repeating through the scale until I run out of frets?
I feel like there's something more here that I'm either too green or too dense to grasp.
Thanks to anyone who could offer any insight on this.
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I did make an entry level videos - let me know if it helps Originally Posted by reflectedpeace23
Mick Goodrick's Harmonic Cosmos - the first steps
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Just saying, when I was a complete newbie, as opposed to whatever I am now, I dug in on a lot of cool stuff that was way over my head and not directly applicable to what I probably should have been working on: learning tunes, learning how to comp with basic chord voicings and learning a lot of licks and vocabulary so I could play with people ASAP. It didn't really serve me. Originally Posted by reflectedpeace23
I really like the Randy Vincent books for this purpose...very clear ideas about how to play 'good' quickly.
The Goodrich stuff is beautiful and I'd love to get back to it at some point. It might be perfect for you but personally if you're just starting out I think it could really sidetrack you.
I can only beat myself up about so many things at once. Lack of repetoire and lack of good vocabulary is a good place to start. If I beat myself up about voice leading without those other two...I might end up not being able to play much actual music.
Just saying...my experience.
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This was super helpful, thank you! Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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I appreciate the heads up and gentle redirect. Originally Posted by sully75
I'd be a liar if I said I didn't often bite off more than I could chew.
I'll take look into the books you've mentioned.
Right now I'm at a point where I can mostly handle fully voiced extended chords, but beyond running through the 2-5-1 in various keys I've been doing more noodling than actual purposeful practice.
Recently completed a home move and hoping to buckle down for some real progress.
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Originally Posted by reflectedpeace23
Hey there reflectedpeace23, welcome to the ocean of Mick's musical world.
Because the teaching and publications of Mick Goodrick are non linear in nature, as he believed all learning about music and life to be, these books are not overtly practical. By that, I mean that they are not necessarily a route by which you practice them and then show up at a jam and play like Ben Monder.
What I've found to be true is these cryptic volumes are most effectively used when a student has a question about their own advancing path.
You're NOT going to find an easy answer to the question "Where are the cool licks I can actually USE at a jam?" or "Where on the guitar do I find the translation to these letters and arrows?"
What the almanacs do give you is a sonic and kinesthetic (for your ears and fingers) set of etudes on moving voices. Each cycle will give you a different way of moving and a different texture of richness that is a complete system. Within that system (individual page in the books) is a tapestry of textures that includes every diatonic/MM/HM based chord and progression between. BUT you need to know how a tune is constructed in order to fully realize the options that are presented.
As an improvisor, and a guitarist, you'll soon learn the tendency to play turnarounds in a certain way, in a specific place on the fingerboard, familiar patterns that allow you to survive in a real time situation. But the more you become proficient, maybe you'll begin to be bothered by the feeling of being trapped in what you "know". This when you ask "What more is there?" and if you understand diatonic harmony, tonal areas, the flow of movement towards resolution, there will be an ocean of possibilities of sound, where to play them and how to connect chords so they flow, in these books.
There are no fingerings because on the guitar there are many ways to play the same sounds. Mick said "This is YOUR job to explore that." and he shows you where to begin and how to move within the scale to create harmonic and melodic flow.
It's not for everyone. It's not for someone who is craving well proven tools to build options to plug in over II V I's. It IS for someone who wants the mastery of your own ear in creating harmony on the fly, like Bill Evans did on the piano, or Julian Lage in a string of magically connected chords.
It is knowing that the leap from cycles on a page to using them in an actual piece contextually is where a lot of guitarists give up. That's why I want to create an entire thread based on using this stuff in a usable way.
Common questions:
There are no fingerings. How do I know where to voice these chords? A: Work out all the possibilities including those you can't easily reach. This will give you finger vision.
Is this translatable to other keys? A: Yes, these cycles apply to all 12 keys. Here's the hint, once your fingers know how to move in C, simply moving the tonic up or down gives you the same knowledge in any key. The cycles are the same, you just re-orient yourself and the movement is exactly the same.
How does this help as a melody player? A: All of these "chords" are assumed to be played (sounded) at one moment in time. But they can also be played one note at a time. Up, down, in dyads, three notes over a single one... the variation is up to you and once rhythmacized, they give you a melodic vocabulary of lines that flows from you as easily as water. Horn players use these cycles. It's beautiful and it's so complex yet simple, it sounds superhuman.
Why so MANY chords in all those symbols? A: Each cycle only employs one set of chords made up of root position and 3 inversions. It's really a very finite set of chord "grabs" but put in proximity so they all voice lead with the root moving easily within the voices. Once you see this, it gets managable.
Why should I go to all this trouble? A: These cycles are most effectively used in small pieces. They're bolts of material to the dressmaker. They're a lumberyard of every type of wood and grain to the house builder. Ex: Each cycle will give you voice led progressions to lead you to the V7; all of which you can use as an alternative to the II V I you can't free yourself of.
Those are some starter questions. Maybe the practical thread will help. Coming soon.
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