Augmented scale?

[Fritzjazz]

Is it the augmented scale?

I vaguely remember a scale that was similar to the altered scale (in construction) but sort of reversed - the whole tone tetra-chord first then some sort of diminished tetra-chord to follow (or something like that).

Anybody know what it is and its applications?

Thanks,

Fritzjazz

[Aristotle]

Aug scale: C D# E G G# B?

As to the reverse alt? You got me. Sounds like a mode of the alt, like G-alt and Db-Lyd-Dom have reversed tetrachords?

Abersold scale syllabus
http://www.jazzbooks.com/mm5/downloa...e-syllabus.pdf

[Spirit59]

Isn't there a halfway long-ish thread on this board regarding the various applications of the augmented scale?

[JonR]

Aug scale: C D# E G G# B?

As to the reverse alt? You got me. Sounds like a mode of the alt, like G-alt and Db-Lyd-Dom have reversed tetrachords?

My guess would be along those lines:

The altered scale is sometimes known as "diminished wholetone": 1-2-1-2-2-2-2 in half-steps.

Lydian dominant is opposite in the sense that it's the tritone sub for the altered scale. 2-2-2-1-2-1-2 in half-steps. That's kind of like wholetone followed by diminished.

But there's also the 3rd mode of melodic minor, which is the exact reverse (inverse?) of the altered scale: 2-2-2-2-1-2-1. That's known as lydian augmented (1-2-3-#4-#5-6-7), maybe what Fritzjazz was thinking of.
It would be used on maj7#5 chords.

[Spirit59]

Here:

https://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/theor...ted-scale.html

The AuGmEnTeD Scale - Jazz Bulletin Board

Interesting uses for the Augmented Scale? - Jazz Bulletin Board

I usually access this particular scale via it's major / minor / augmented triads - all major 3rds apart - loads of fun!

You guys know that classic lick in Oliver Nelson's Hoedown? (Off of Blues and the Abstract truth - a must have!) - most folks intro to that "sound" in the world of jazz. We stole it from the 20th century classical guys though.

[JonnyPac]

Bert Ligon has a nice section on it in Vol II of Jazz Theory Resources. It looks like an aug triad with chromatic lower neighbor tones under each degree. I have not busted it out yet myself. So many scales... sigh.

[randalljazz]

sid jacobs has a few ideas in here:



Amazon.com: Mel Bay's Complete Book Jazz Guitar: Lines & Phrases (9780786617920): Sid Jacobs: Books

[Aristotle]

Bert Ligon has a nice section on it in Vol II of Jazz Theory Resources. It looks like an aug triad with chromatic lower neighbor tones under each degree..

Something like this?

Aug scale: C D# E G G# B?

[hed_b94]

Something like this?

Yes, that is the augmented scale.

I have a book called "The Augmented Scale in Jazz", by Ramon Ricker and Walt Keiskopf- Very recommended!

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

I would have thought an augmented scale would not have a leading tone -- that it would fit over augmented dominant chords. So over what chords would you play "C D# E G G# B"? Help a brother out!

[JohnW400]

OPUS 28 Promotions - Jazz Improvisation


Check out the section on playing Giant Steps with one scale.

[hed_b94]

I would have thought an augmented scale would not have a leading tone -- that it would fit over augmented dominant chords. So over what chords would you play "C D# E G G# B"? Help a brother out!

You play it over C dominant. the B is of course, a passing note only.

[wolflen]

OPUS 28 Promotions - Jazz Improvisation


Check out the section on playing Giant Steps with one scale.

there are times when you digest information and it opens and connects so many other bits of information that you cannot process it all at once...but you understand it...a giant AH HA moment!...

i have been working on the joe dioreo book for giant steps...so this bit of additional info just pushed me over the edge..so to speak..

thanks

wolf

[Aristotle]

I would have thought an augmented scale would not have a leading tone -- that it would fit over augmented dominant chords. So over what chords would you play "C D# E G G# B"? Help a brother out!

If you are asking me, I probably never used it knowingly. I can think of no reason why the leading tone wouldn't approach from above instead of below. It looks like something engineered on a drawing board. And from here on out, it's likely going to repeated in every scale syllabus.

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Of course, the whole tone scale works over a 7#5 chord.

I do remember vaguely, from a classical theory class (be gentle, it was a long time ago!), that one alternative to the whole tone scale was to add a leading tone to it, so have both the b7 and the leading tone. This makes the scale less ambiguous, if that floats yer boat.

[oneworld]

It looks like something engineered on a drawing board. And from here on out, it's likely going to repeated in every scale syllabus.

it has been around for quite a while...

Modes of limited transposition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

look for:

Truncation of mode 3: minor third, semitone, minor third, semitone, minor third, semitone - 2 modes, 4 transpositions. See augmented scale.

here's a little more:

Hexatonic scale - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

we had an interesting thread about it over at TGP called: 'messin' with messiaen'

Messin' with Messiaen - The Gear Page

[randalljazz]

as an aside...for those who won't get around to the links or books on the subject (yet?), play arounds with this scale over a MAJOR chord, rather than a dominant. especially fun for filling in the last two measures of your four-measure ii-V7-I stuff...fingering is very guitar-friendly...

[Aristotle]

it has been around for quite a while...

So have drawing boards.

[oneworld]

OPUS 28 Promotions - Jazz Improvisation


Check out the section on playing Giant Steps with one scale.

worth looking into....


http://www.opus28.co.uk/gsteps.pdf

[oneworld]

I would have thought an augmented scale would not have a leading tone -- that it would fit over augmented dominant chords. So over what chords would you play "C D# E G G# B"? Help a brother out!

it works nicely over C dom7, E dom 7th and Ab dom 7...

as well as the respective maj 7#5 on C, E and Ab

amo... and very 'fingering friendly'...

[oneworld]

So have drawing boards.

[JonR]

I would have thought an augmented scale would not have a leading tone -- that it would fit over augmented dominant chords. So over what chords would you play "C D# E G G# B"? Help a brother out!

I'd disagree with some of the above. It's not designed for dominant chords. You'd use it on augmented triads, or maj7#5 chords: IOW, III chords from harmonic or melodic minor.

If the chord is an augmented dominant, better scales are either altered or wholetone. (Wholetone for 9#5 chords, altered if there's a b9 or #9.)

Of course, the augmented scale could still be used on any chord which contains an augmented triad, to give you 3 chromatic approach notes to those chord tones. Eg you could use a C augmented scale on an Am(maj7) chord.
And that would include altered dominants (eg C aug scale = G# aug scale, on G#7#5 or D9#11): you'd just miss some of the best chord tones/extensions, which the wholetone or altered scales will give you.

[Spirit59]

I'd disagree with some of the above. It's not designed for dominant chords. You'd use it on augmented triads, or maj7#5 chords: IOW, III chords from harmonic or melodic minor.

If the chord is an augmented dominant, better scales are either altered or wholetone. (Wholetone for 9#5 chords, altered if there's a b9 or #9.)

Of course, the augmented scale could still be used on any chord which contains an augmented triad, to give you 3 chromatic approach notes to those chord tones. Eg you could use a C augmented scale on an Am(maj7) chord.
And that would include altered dominants (eg C aug scale = G# aug scale, on G#7#5 or D9#11): you'd just miss some of the best chord tones/extensions, which the wholetone or altered scales will give you.

I've heard M7#5 chords being used to good effect as a sub for dominant chords. Even though something derived from a mode of the melodic minor technically fits an altered dominant chord better, material made from the augmented scale can sound great (subjective), especially if it's made up of triadic stuff, and your forward motion is happening. Listen to Herbie Hancock, Michael Brecker et al.

Check out Adam Rogers - he'll bust out with augmented scale-based stuff over just about any chord at the drop of a hat - it's become a trademark.

[monk]

Of course, the whole tone scale works over a 7#5 chord.

A less obvious, somewhat overlooked use of the whole tone scale is that it works very well over a 7b5 also.

[JonR]

I've heard M7#5 chords being used to good effect as a sub for dominant chords.

On the same root??