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Sorry guys but I'm really new in everything, playing guitar and music theory. My question would be, how can I related any jazz chord progression to scales or some solo knowing that I'm hitting always a proper note part of it.
Thank you all.
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03-31-2025 01:08 AM
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My general framework guide for notes in jazz is 3 things.
1. Outlining the changes.
2. Embellishing or playing off of the melody.
3. Tonal centers.
I'm sure others have more approaches but those are my main 3, especially for a beginner. To outline the changes, run the scales, arps, intervals and chromatics to the changes in an exercise fashion, then put them together in progressively more musical ways.
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I think you'll find people divided into (at least) 2 camps, those that go off chord tones, and those that go off chord scales. They're totally different approaches and I'd advise to choose a preferred path early on. To help decide, tell us who you're favourite players are and we may be able to help determine whether a chord tone or scale approach will be better suited to your goals.
Regardless of the approach, it's all about how you embellish either system in a Jazz style. In other words scales and arpeggios are just the beginning...
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Personally I like George Benson and John Scofield (that tomorrow should be in my city for a concert)
Originally Posted by princeplanet
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By determining the function of that chord. Originally Posted by gokyo66
That's the simple answer but the explanation would take a long, long post. You'd best start at the beginning with simple theory and go from there. Buy a book or seek online.
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I’d suggest to start by learning where the notes in the chords are.
Skipping that step will make everything harder to understand in the long run.
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Scales are chords. Chords are a "vertical" sonic organization of a mood or a "harmonic aroma" (hat tip Zappa). Scales are a "horizontal" manifestation of the same thing. Early on I knocked myself out attempting to memorize what scales could go with which chords, until I realized (ie., was told) that it isn't necessary to memorize for chords built in thirds: min, major, dom, dim. You can just play the arpeggios and understand that pitches a whole step above the chord tones of the triad are consonant. Practice the arpeggios, and use this principal for melodic content. Of course there is more, and somebody is going to respond with exceptions or when this rule is inapplicable. But this is a good example of an 80/20 rule, a little bit of info that you can use 80% of the time. After this you could work on half-whole, whole-half and whole tone and have most of a legit scalar vocabulary.
Major arpeggio: C, E, G, B
scale: C, D, E, F#, G, A, B
Dom7 arpeggio: G, B, D, F
scale G, A, B, C#, D, E, F
Min arpeggio: A, C, E, G
scale: A, B, C, D, E, F#, G
m7b5: B, D, F, A
scale: B, C#, D, E, F, G, A
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Great question, but it covers too much ground for someone getting started. Originally Posted by gokyo66
I don't think I can do it justice in a short post. That said, I would suggest checking out Warren Nunes' books, particularly the one on the Blues and another on Solo Patterns iirc.
He explains tonal centers which is a concept central to what you're trying to do. And he explains how to find the notes.
With just tonal center and chord tones as your concepts you can start developing solos. It builds (seemingly endlessly) from there, but this is a good place to start.
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This may be the one skill that doesn't care how talented you are - it still takes many, many hours of work. Originally Posted by gokyo66
Usually the good fast way is to use common progressions, work something out that sounds good and you can wrap your head around - like 2 or 4 bars, make it groovy, write or record it for later, move on to the next.
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New to playing guitar Originally Posted by gokyo66
Excellent opportunity to not develop bad habits (both physical and conceptual).
This site is a truly good place to learn about all that from the Jazz perspective.
New to music theory
This is an excellent place for theory, too; but with a caution and a suggestion.
All of the objects of music theory are based on definitions, including the definitions of the elements comprising the more complex objects. Definitions of many elements are defined directly with respect to the structure of standard written music notation.
You can make limited progress in theory without knowing how to read music, but there will come a time "about chapter 5" where the theory will seem to break down, stop making clear sense, appearing to contain contradictions and confusions. This happens because one is using the casual ideas of elements rather than the formal definitions of them. For example, it is critical to distinguish the words "note" and "pitch", as they don't share the same definition and do not mean the same thing, but are casually exchanged as two names for the same element in conversation.
Also for example, the "7" in the chord symbols can mean major seven, or minor seven (flat seven b7, but without the flat sign "b" showing in the symbol to distinguish or identify it). The deeper you go into theory the more things you will find that need to be distinguished that in casual writing, conversation, and lead sheet symbology are not... you're supposed to know from context so the lingo can be a short hand rather than all formal and flowery.
Knowing how to read music starts with the well defined elements and prepares understanding of formal objects like key signature. Reading music is independent of the instrument, but instrumental in grasping the foundation and true nature of the proper definitions of the music theory elements.
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OP: Before you get sucked into the black hole of the theory wank that this thread is about to devolve into, just check out the free lessons being offered on jazzguitar.be itself:
Free Jazz Guitar Lessons
These are written and provided for free by the wonderful guy who runs this site (Thank you for this and more, Dirk!
) They've even got audio examples. Great stuff.
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Hello everybody, first let me thank you all for your awesome suggestion, feel nice to be heard and helped.
I would say that I got enough material to work on.
Yesterday I saw a video of an 81yo man jazz guitar self taught that went viral... I wish to still be able to learn and play at 81 so even if I got my 58, if I keep my pace I should be able to learn something in the next 20yearsLast edited by gokyo66; 04-01-2025 at 10:55 AM.
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Good luck to you!
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Hah! Originally Posted by gokyo66
I had similar thought when picked up jazz again - instead losing agility and start to struggle when the joints get stiffer after 50, playing classical guitar, instead I could still improve and have fun with it playing reasonable tunes of jazz.
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You should take all the advice of all the generous responders to your query. But I want to point out that as you listen to jazz and try to figure out what’s going on, perhaps transcribe bits of solos, etc, you will realize that all 12 notes fit over any chord and are thus proper when they are used in ways that still fit the chord, sound cool, etc. (You may ask “how could I play an E natural (major third) over a C minor chord which needs an E flat?” Well you might be quickly running F down to E to Eb. ) Along with all the theory stuff you practice, just develop a knack for melodies that you play by ear that sound right to YOU. Originally Posted by gokyo66
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First and foremost learn melodies. Even if you never feel comfortable soloing freely over changes, you will have the joy of playing melodies. And also play the changes a whole heap. Over and over and in as many inversions as you know, until you hear them. You will begin to hear how some chords want to move/change/lead somewhere else, and how some feel like a landing spot (resolution). Also play them enough to truly hear the form.
And also use the melody to understand what's going on in a song - do you understand how the notes in the melody relate to the chords? How does chord and melody inform each other
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If I'm learning a song, I repeatedly listen to recordings of the song by Jazz artists, sing the melody, internalise the song, I don't play the song on the guitar until I "know the song by listening". Originally Posted by Average Joe
Jazz guitar is my hobby.Last edited by GuyBoden; 04-04-2025 at 06:50 AM.
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I assume you're a more experienced music teacher than me - asking students to sing, is that a help or a hindrance? I ask because I know a good many who are real shy about singing and I would imagine that asking them to, when they feel burdend figuring out the instrument, would make some give up. They have problems with one thing, and now you want to introduce another thing they worry about, that sort of thing Originally Posted by GuyBoden
Not that I disagree at all that singing can and would be benificialLast edited by Average Joe; 04-04-2025 at 08:51 AM.
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Not if you sing with them. You'll want to avoid busting out your opera chops too. Be a bad singer with them and they'll be fine with it. Originally Posted by Average Joe
Or have them clap or tap a melody rhythmically if they're like "no."
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Singers will sing, players will play.
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Musicians will music Originally Posted by ragman1
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I play in a big band led and populated mostly by long term pro players.
When the horns are struggling with a section, the leader will sometimes ask them to sing their parts and every last one of them does it, at least for the rhythms, and close enough to the pitches.
Do you have to sing? My guess is that some excellent players don't. And some equally excellent players do.
When I'm relaxed enough and know the tune well enough I like to scat quietly and try to play those lines. Other times I'm a monkey plugging in chord tones and scales. The singing is generally a better path to a good solo, at least for me.
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Horn players almost universally sing because of their articulation. Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
A lot of guitar bass and pianists sing because it helps their pacing, rhythm, and phrasing sound more natural.
On balance I would say probably a lot more musicians sing than don’t
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Singing is a basic tool for musicians
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Personally, even when I'm trying to learn a Jazz phrase from the recordings of the great Jazz artists, I repeatedly listen and sing the phrase. I don't play the phrase on guitar, until I "know the phrase by listening and singing the phrase". Originally Posted by GuyBoden
It's a much longer process than reading a phrase in music notation, but it works for me.
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