One bar in Misty

[djg]

Yeah I mentioned that on the original recording he plays ...

Cm F7 Cm F7 Fm Edim Fm7 Bb7 (line cliche)**

but you also probably shouldn't expect the real book to be pulling from the original for most of these tunes. They're going to be going for more characteristically jazz versions. A lot of the vocal versions (and Garner's later ones, it seems) are different.

**transposed to Eb. He's playing in Ab.

here he plays it in C and he has (transposed)
|Am7 D7|Cm7 F7|Bbsus Edim/B (probably,he does a lot there)| Fm7 Bb7|

[pamosmusic]

here he plays it in C and he has (transposed)
|Am7 D7|Cm7 F7|Bbsus Edim/B (probably,he does a lot there)| Fm7 Bb7|

Yeah I edited that earlier post and on his Ready Take One Misty (recorded in the late sixties apparently) he plays those changes too. Though in Ab. The simpler version was in the original

I wonder if it’s a game of telephone where the lyric was written and harmonized to reflect that lyric and then he grabbed it too.

[pauln]

The "out of thin air" (repeating a 2 5 1 a half step down) is very common in B sections - e.g., Angel Eyes, This Masquerade

The F7 sounds off because it's a symbol in the convention of keeping things simple. In this context F7 is suggesting sounds more like Gb diminished, maybe D Lydian Dominant ideas...

[Bob_Ross]

I don't play an F7 there, just a bar of D7, and I'm not sure why I dropped it.

^^^This. I've been playing "Misty" for almost 50 years and I don't think I even knew there was supposed to be an F7 there!
I've thrown in all sorts of other subs for D7 to fill out the latter part of that bar, but never F7.
Been doing that so long, I just tried playing an F7 now and boy does it sound weird!!!
:::shrugs:::

[rpjazzguitar]

I have used xx 7 9 8 10

to x x 0 8 7 10 - a truly great chord I learned from Warren Nunes

Then back to the first one above.

Then, for the triplet, three chords.

x x 13 12 10 13 = F9
x x 7 8 8 10 (sometimes I raise the A to a Bb) = F13 or Cm9
and xx 7 8 8 8 = F9 (I'm not totally happy with this one)

xx5766 for the Gm7. I haven't been playing that as Gm7b5 -- I like it better with the natural 5th. Next, I like the Eo.

[Stringswinger]

I see that F7 as a passing chord ( A minor7 Flat 5 or C minor 6 are ways to look at it)

[Al Haig]

You guys are wimpy if you're scared of a lil BH dominant family sub leading into a 3, 6, 2, 5.

[pamosmusic]

It’s interesting to think of those bars as starting with

Cm — F7 — Fm — Bb7

Just curious how it ended up where it did

[ragman1]

I really loathe all this but at least I've answered the question Joe asked before.

I've been through all my books and looked at all the YT backing tracks and transcriptions by all the big names. I think almost every single version apart from one or two was different from the others. The most obscure was Wes Montgomery (see below), not that it matters I suppose.

Here they all are. I tell you what it means. It means that as long as what you're doing fits the melody you can play what the hell you like. Obviously.

Have fun and lots of stupid sleepless nights :-)

Am7 - D7/F7 - Gm7b5/C7b9 - Fm7/Bb7
Am7/D7 - Cm7/F7 - Bb7/C7b9 (or Eo) - Fm7/Bb7
Am7 - D7/F7 - Bb7/C7 - F7/Bb7
Am7 - D7/F7 - Bb7/Eo - Fm7/Bb7
Am7 - D7/F7 - Gm7/C7 - Fm7/Bb7
Am7/D7 - Cm7/F7 - Fm7/B7 - Fm7/Bb7
Am7b5/D7#9 - Cm7/F7 - Bb7/Eo - Fm7/Bb7
Am7/D7 - Cm7/F7 - Bb7 - Fm7/Bb7
Am7/D7 - Eb7/D7/Eb7/D7 - Gm7/C7 - Fm7/Bb7
Am7 - Cm7/F7 - Bb7 - Fm7/Bb7
Am7/D7 - Cm7/F7 - Gm7/C7b9 - Fm7/Bb7

Wes:
AM7/D7 - CM9/F9 - Fm7/FmM7 - Fm7b5/E13

Personally, I just use the Real Book (which is the first one at the top). It works, simple as that.

[Christian Miller]

I must confess I usually just miss the F7 out lol. Thanks for the discussion.

[Question]

the lyrics were added later. iirc misty was written about a rainbow that garner saw from a plane. but the lyricist may have been inspired by the chord.

I did not know this, and stand corrected.

[ragman1]

I forgot the Erroll Garner one, at least the version on YT. Pretty simple, no Am.

Cm7/F7 - % - Fm/FmM7 - Fm7/Bb7

[lawson-stone]

I did not know this, and stand corrected.

The flaw behind a lot of the "learn the words" exhortations we hear is in fact that many of our beloved standards began life as instrumentals to which words were later added. I think "Satin Doll" is another one of those.

[lawson-stone]

I have to say that F7 actually sounds really solid and good. The line in that measure lays perfectly if you play an F13 at the 11th. It has a rock-solid feel that I like. I have played it many other ways, but I like that F7 there a lot.

[garybaldy]

I must confess I usually just miss the F7 out lol. Thanks for the discussion.

D over F7 is a great polychord. So even if your bass player doesn't know your secret it'll still sound good.

[ragman1]

Actually, the F7 is more important than the D7. It heightens the feel of the tune at that point. D7 doesn't quite work anyway because of the natural F in the melody. So the ones that work best are the D7/F7 or Cm7/F7.

But I suspect the overlooked bit is the last two bars where the tune peters out at that point and just stays on a Bb.

I think (from experimentation) what happens in the background then is important. If the harmonies are bland, like Gm7/C7 - Fm7/Bb7, it's a bit of a non-event. Whereas if the chords are more expressive it lifts the whole section.

The ones that work best are Gm7b5/C7b9 - Fm7/Bb7 and Gm7/C7b9 - Fm7/Bb7. The ones with the Eo can work too but it sounds as though the chords are ascending to Fm7 rather than descending to Bb7 so I'm not so keen.

That's why I prefer the RB version, it's got all those good elements. Damn, not everything they did was wrong!

[pamosmusic]

Actually, the F7 is more important than the D7. It heightens the feel of the tune at that point. D7 doesn't quite work anyway because of the natural F in the melody. So the ones that work best are the D7/F7 or Cm7/F7.

But I suspect the overlooked bit is the last two bars where the tune peters out at that point and just stays on a Bb.

I think (from experimentation) what happens in the background then is important. If the harmonies are bland, like Gm7/C7 - Fm7/Bb7, it's a bit of a non-event. Whereas if the chords are more expressive it lifts the whole section.

The ones that work best are Gm7b5/C7b9 - Fm7/Bb7 and Gm7/C7b9 - Fm7/Bb7. The ones with the Eo can work too but it sounds as though the chords are ascending to Fm7 rather than descending to Bb7 so I'm not so keen.

That's why I prefer the RB version, it's got all those good elements. Damn, not everything they did was wrong!

F over that D7 is a nice bluesy. Like you mention, Erroll Garner didn’t seem to start with D7.

I do like the F7 though.

[ragman1]

F over that D7 is a nice bluesy.

That was my first thought too, but have you played it?

[AllanAllen]

The flaw behind a lot of the "learn the words" exhortations we hear is in fact that many of our beloved standards began life as instrumentals to which words were later added. I think "Satin Doll" is another one of those.

It’s usually learn the words, if the song had them. Most every standard has a vocalese version by now.

You’re correct, Satin Doll was instrumental first, as was Stardust.

[ragman1]

Sure

It's not a bluesy tune. Playing the nat F over D7 doesn't make it bluesy, it just sounds like the wrong note in the wrong place, especially when the rest of the tune sounds right.

(Erroll Garner used F7 too, or rather Bb13 in Ab. This is from a YT transcription video. Mind you, he's using the Fm7 too which is Cm7 in Eb. I've tried that and it sort of works but it's really not very good. D7 is much, much better)

I do like the F7 though.

Well, there you are :-)

[pamosmusic]

It's not a bluesy tune.

Someone didn’t get the memo

[ragman1]

What a racket. Sorry, Etta. Also, that's not really a blues treatment, it's something else. R&B? Motown? Soul? Something.

I think she's trying to be Janis Joplin. Except Janis chose her songs better.