I just ordered all the Real Books lol

[ragman1]

I know.

Really complicated. Only for heavyweight techies :-)

[AllanAllen]

No... I've been gigging for decades... have hosted several jazz jams for years...... know most of the rhythm section players locally... and can easily verbally explain which versions or if we decide to make quick head arrangement... again verbally explain.

All tunes are just organized sections of space. It's easy to make changes, add intros, outros, interludes, vamps etc... I'm use to directing bands.... relaxed and can cue well before etc... don't need to figure out what's going on with most tunes, just decide on style and approach or arrangement etc...

I guess the other thing is I got my technical skills together ... a long time ago. Playing jazz isn't complicated , its fun etc...

I still suck... but I play in time and with really good feels.... Players trust me... (even pianist LOL).


The claim thing tends to be more of a rhythmic thing..

Alright, so it's more like, another thing to get used too. I can handle that.

[omphalopsychos]

Charts are useful when playing cold. But my experience is the music gets deeper once they go away. I hate seeing them on a bandstand. I pride myself on always being the first person in the group to memorize a tune. I feel like I play better when I do too.

As for me, if I don’t know a song, I usually prefer for someone to walk me through it verbally (quickly) rather than look at a chart. After comping a couple choruses I think people should be able to play (ie comp and blow) a tune without looking. All depends on how complex the tune is.

[Christian Miller]

Tbh if you have a decent repertoire sometimes tunes are easier to learn by ear on the band stand. Used to be like that when I was playing with dance bands, three or four set gigs. No breaks between tunes to look through books, straightforward GASB and old jazz rep based on familiar chunks. Often tunes would get transposed on the fly as well. Charts not much good in that setting.

Obviously if you are playing modern rep it’s a different story. But even so there’s value in learning that material by ear if you want to add a tune to your repetoire. Anything that extends the ears is time well spent.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[pamosmusic]

Found the first two new real books used for $25 total. First one comes today.

Oops.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Charts are useful when playing cold. But my experience is the music gets deeper once they go away. I hate seeing them on a bandstand. I pride myself on always being the first person in the group to memorize a tune. I feel like I play better when I do too.

As for me, if I don’t know a song, I usually prefer for someone to walk me through it verbally (quickly) rather than look at a chart. After comping a couple choruses I think people should be able to play (ie comp and blow) a tune without looking. All depends on how complex the tune is.

That’s all true and I agree with you. But it’s not practical for many gigs. These days, almost no one pays for rehearsals for non-recurring club dates (at least around here). If I asked a bass player and a keyboardist to get together with me for an hour or two to review a 3 set show for which we’re going to get $100 each to back a vocalist at a small local club, they’d think I was crazy. If it was a well known singer and/or at a top venue, we’d be getting a lot more and a rehearsal would be a condition for accepting the gig.

When I’m working with close friends or the other players are just happy to get together to play, a rehearsal works out well. But 3/4 or more of the 150 or so gigs I play in a year are done at least in part from charts or fakebooks. I prefer having my own sidemen using a fakebook or the printed pdfs I’ll hand out to keep us all on the same chords and form. It’s especially important for tunes none of us has played for a long time.

Even with this, I’ve had a few train wrecks. Having the chart in front of me keeps my focus on the show, even if I don’t need it. I admit to playing almost every tune from memory on my own gigs, and I only look at the tune list. One night a few years ago, I got to Tenderly on the list and immediately launched into a passionate rubato intro……for Misty, which I proceeded to play. Fortunately, the band had lots of time to correct course, and they were right there with me when the tempo hit. When I realized what I’d done, I couldn’t stop laughing - but the audience never seemed to notice that anything happened. I still haven’t heard the end of that one.

I set a theme for each of my trio’s Thursday night shows, and 2 weeks ago it was jazz versions of movie themes. I put a tune list that includes the specific fake book and page for each song on each music stand. One of the guys opened Blue Moon instead of Moon River, and he didn’t figure out that he wasn’t playing the same tune I was for several bars. I picked it up into the second bar and stopped playing the lead until I could get his attention. I got him onto the right tune, but it took at least 30 painful seconds during which time I went to fingerstyle until he stopped playing Blue Moon and opened the right chart. It was Chet Atkins plays Mancini for several bars.

I record most of my gigs for quality control. Every once in a while, I listen to these and more to remind me why I need to pay more attention to everything. You never miss your water ‘til the well runs dry.

[GuyBoden]

EDIT; can anyone remind me how to make these not sideways?

As a Software Engineer, I'd simply open the picture, usually by default in Windows it uses the Photos app for JPG pictures.

Then I'd use the following shortcut keys to rotate the picture and then save it. (Or you can click the buttons)

Rotate Picture: crt+r
Save Picture: crtr+s




Rotated Pic

[pamosmusic]

Found the first two new real books used for $25 total. First one comes today.

Oops.

Lol.

They sent me Bb

[AllanAllen]

Tbh if you have a decent repertoire sometimes tunes are easier to learn by ear on the band stand. Used to be like that when I was playing with dance bands, three or four set gigs. No breaks between tunes to look through books, straightforward GASB and old jazz rep based on familiar chunks. Often tunes would get transposed on the fly as well. Charts not much good in that setting.

Obviously if you are playing modern rep it’s a different story. But even so there’s value in learning that material by ear if you want to add a tune to your repetoire. Anything that extends the ears is time well spent.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The guys who play the first group GASB and swing tunes are the OG realbook haters. That’s what I meant earlier in the thread when I said we don’t have the repertoire or volume of opportunity to learn these tunes the old way.

The big band I’ve played with rehearses every other month. The other big band out here rehearses once a year and plays 6 times a year.

Hard to develop an ear that way, compared to the old guard who played 4 hour gigs 7 nights a week, the jammed after hours. Maybe a few brunch or early hotel lobby gigs tossed in during the day.

Pretty easy to develop an ear that way compared to one gig a month and 3 tunes at a random jazz jam.

And like NSHSI said, nobody rehearses a pickup band for a one off $100 gig.

[AllanAllen]

Lol.

They sent me Bb

learn how to read it in C, impress your trumpet friends!

[pamosmusic]

learn how to read it in C, impress your trumpet friends!

You overestimate how much I care about the opinions of my trumpet friends.

[Kirk Garrett]

You overestimate how much I care about the opinions of my trumpet friends.

I’ve known a lot of jazzers over the years, and if I listened to their opinions I wouldn’t even think of playing jazz guitar. I never met a non-guitarist who thought much of it as a jazz instrument.

[Christian Miller]

The guys who play the first group GASB and swing tunes are the OG realbook haters. That’s what I meant earlier in the thread when I said we don’t have the repertoire or volume of opportunity to learn these tunes the old way.

The big band I’ve played with rehearses every other month. The other big band out here rehearses once a year and plays 6 times a year.

Hard to develop an ear that way, compared to the old guard who played 4 hour gigs 7 nights a week, the jammed after hours. Maybe a few brunch or early hotel lobby gigs tossed in during the day.

Pretty easy to develop an ear that way compared to one gig a month and 3 tunes at a random jazz jam.

And like NSHSI said, nobody rehearses a pickup band for a one off $100 gig.

Yeaaaahhhh. You know it’s just one of those things. There’s a bunch of tunes I half learned wrong on the stand and then had to relearn. It’s a complicated life journey.

I still find myself in situations with players who know a certain repertoire really well and I don’t know half of the calls.

Consider though that the two main skills you may need if you want to play gigs are ears/rep and reading.

Everyone’s route through this is different. The only advice I’d give is learn music you care about. If you are gigging there’s plenty of call to learn other peoples stuff haha.

It also depends where you live. A lot of London horn players are insane sight readers but don’t know many tunes (although some really do). So if you play tunes with those guys, charts are pretty normal, but the flip side is those guys really can read fly droppings. The people who really roasted me on rep were unsurprisingly visiting New Yorkers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Christian Miller]

You overestimate how much I care about the opinions of my trumpet friends.

Trumpet friends?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[pamosmusic]

I’ve known a lot of jazzers over the years, and if I listened to their opinions I wouldn’t even think of playing jazz guitar. I never met a non-guitarist who thought much of it as a jazz instrument.

One of my old professors (actually a trumpeter) plays all the rhythm section instruments except guitar.

me: why not guitar?

him: [shudders] that instrument scares me.

[Christian Miller]

I’ve known a lot of jazzers over the years, and if I listened to their opinions I wouldn’t even think of playing jazz guitar. I never met a non-guitarist who thought much of it as a jazz instrument.

Really? One clarinetist I know transcribed a ton of Pat Metheny. Another one was obsessed with Grant Green….. I’m often surprised at how much they like listening to jazz guitar. I can’t really see the appeal tbh.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Christian Miller]

One of my old professors (actually a trumpeter) plays all the rhythm section instruments except guitar.

me: why not guitar?

him: [shudders] that instrument scares me.

It’s stupid and makes no sense. He’s quite right.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bobby Timmons]

They sent me Bb.

Learn how to read it in C, impress your trumpet friends!

Play it in the key written as concert.

[pamosmusic]

Play it in the key written as concert.

So to clarify, I don’t play from fake books often but i do need lead sheets for students so I would like them to be in the correct key.

[Kirk Garrett]

Really? One clarinetist I know transcribed a ton of Pat Metheny. Another one was obsessed with Grant Green….. I’m often surprised at how much they like listening to jazz guitar. I can’t really see the appeal tbh.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Speaking of which, I’ve been on a Grant Green trip. This is after listening to tons of Wes Montgomery for a few months. Now when I listen to Wes Montgomery, his single note playing sounds weak by comparison. Not necessarily the notes, but the tone and the time. Green’s bitey, more rotund sound is missed whenever some other guitarist pops up.

[zephyrregent]

Lol.

They sent me Bb

That reminds me of when the Charlie Parker Omnibook first came out in the early 1980s. I was excited to see it but didn't notice it was the E flat version. Many tunes in G. It was good for practice in learning the phrases then using them in different keys. I never did get the C version.

[Mick-7]

So... I found out the other day that there are a couple of dozen fake books (pdfs) on Scribd, including all the Real books (except I did not see Vol. VI). A free 30 day trial will allow you to download them all, plus many other music books. How they manage to evade copyright infringement law I don't know.

I discovered this when I was looking for info on this book and saw it was available on Scribd:
The Real Book, Enhanced Chords Edition by David Hazeltine

[AllanAllen]

So... I found out the other day that there are a couple of dozen fake books (pdfs) on Scribd, including all the Real books (except I did not see Vol. VI). A free 30 day trial will allow you to download them all, plus many other music books. How they manage to evade copyright infringement law I don't know.

I discovered this when I was looking for info on this book and saw it was available on Scribd:
The Real Book, Enhanced Chords Edition by David Hazeltine

It’s probably just hosted in a country that doesn’t care to prosecute.

[Mick-7]

It (Scribd) is probably just hosted in a country that doesn’t care to prosecute.

Now that I've had a chance to browse the site, I see that Scribd is really just a promotion for their other product, Everrand, which is a subscription service that allows you to read books online, including music instruction and fake books. (You can't download them directly, you could download the page images but it would be a lot of work to make a pdf out of them). All the documents on Scribd were donated by users, and most of them can be found online elsewhere, so you're unlikely to see newer or rare materials there, e.g., there are no copies of Real Book volumes 5 & 6 - well, there is a poor copy of Real Book 6 which was taken from Everrand.

[Christian Miller]

Speaking of which, I’ve been on a Grant Green trip. This is after listening to tons of Wes Montgomery for a few months. Now when I listen to Wes Montgomery, his single note playing sounds weak by comparison. Not necessarily the notes, but the tone and the time. Green’s bitey, more rotund sound is missed whenever some other guitarist pops up.

When you get the Green bug… it hits hard


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk