Unavoidable Composers

[Bobby Timmons]

the term "Jazz Standard" is usually applied to a song composed by a musician performing the music. That's the thing that all the "jazz standard" composers have in common. They're written by band-leaders or other musicians in the idiom, to be performed by their bands.

Bro you are out-of-control. That's completely false. Jazz standards not only include Gasb tunes, they make up the majority of standards.

jazz standard definition - Google Search

That is very different than what the tin pan alley composers were doing. Maybe they'd be interesting to compare to someone like Duke Ellington or (more recently) Maria Schneider. They both have really rich orchestral sensibilities and don't generally write lead-sheet-able pieces for small bands. But they're still writing for working bands to perform and improvise within certain parameters, etc.

Anyway ... it's that practical distinction that is generally the operative one.

Commence the downward spiral about "what even is jazz really"

That's a legitimate stance to say Gasb tunes generally weren't jazz at the time they were composed. Although, they later became jazz. My opinion is that just the pure tunes are still part of jazz even if they weren't in a jazz style yet. 'Proto-jazz'.

[bediles]

I just can't see a horn player calling Bright Sized Life at a jam. I'm pretty biased.... There's not a lot of post 1960s jazz that I like.

We played James, Missouri uncompromized and BSL in school but never heard them at jams. Also you'll need them if you end up in the metheney ensemble

[AllanAllen]

We played James, Missouri uncompromized and BSL in school but never heard them at jams. Also you'll need them if you end up in the metheney ensemble

The only thing I want less is to join a free jazz ensemble.

[pamosmusic]

Bro you are out-of-control. That's completely false. Jazz standards not only include Gasb tunes, they make up the majority of standards.

jazz standard definition - Google Search

Thank you for the Google search. But it’s a pretty common practice distinction. Jazz standard as a general term referring to any tune commonly played by jazz musicians. Or jazz standard as a specific term, being distinct from American songbook standards.

[Bobby Timmons]

[John A.]

AH! I was wondering if this would come up …


Maybe?

I don’t usually think of Miles as being a composer of high traffic standards. And lots of the tunes of his that are called regularly are blues forms and things.

Hes an innovator in so many other ways … like just the concept of modal playing and Kind of Blue … but I’m not sure I think of his as A Composer in the way I do Monk or Shorter.

Four
Tune-up
Blue in Green
Solar
(OK, maybe not those)
Nardis
Donna Lee
Seven Steps to Heaven
Milestones
Joshua
So What (I absolutely have played it at jams many times; Impressions as well)
All Blues
Freddie Freeloader

He goes on the list.

I'd throw in Bennie Golson (Stablemates, Whisper Not, Along Came Betty, I Remember Clifford, Killer Joe ...)

I think some of the ones that are being argued over (e.g., Mingus, Chick Corea) are played a lot at the higher echelons of players, but not at the, um, aspirational levels where most of us dwell. So to some cohorts they're "unavoidable", but maybe not others. I'm not at that top level by any stretch of the imagination, but do sometimes find myself on stage at jams with and/or listening to real cats who call tunes Like Humpty Dumpty, Tones for Jones Bones, Better Git It in Your Soul, etc. There are probably also regional/scene dimensions and other fashions to this e.g., I'm old enough to have been around when every horn player played Some Skunk Funk.

[John A.]

I have never been asked to play Chick Corea at a session or gig or anything.

Ive been asked to play Spain loaaaads of times, but only ever with a classical guitar in hand.

I've had Spain, Humpty Dumpty, Windows, and Tones for Jones Bones called and I know people who regularly play them in their sets/sessions.

[pamosmusic]

Bro?

[pamosmusic]

Four
Tune-up
Blue in Green
Solar
(OK, maybe not those)
Nardis
Donna Lee
Seven Steps to Heaven
Milestones
Joshua
So What (I absolutely have played it at jams many times; Impressions as well)
All Blues
Freddie Freeloader

He goes on the list.

I'd throw in Bennie Golson (Stablemates, Whisper Not, Along Came Betty, I Remember Clifford, Killer Joe ...)

I think some of the ones that are being argued over (e.g., Mingus, Chick Corea) are played a lot at the higher echelons of players, but not at the, um, aspirational levels where most of us dwell. So to some cohorts they're "unavoidable", but maybe not others. I'm not at that top level by any stretch of the imagination, but do sometimes find myself on stage at jams with and/or listening to real cats who call tunes Like Humpty Dumpty, Tones for Jones Bones, Better Git It in Your Soul, etc. There are probably also regional/scene dimensions and other fashions to this e.g., I'm old enough to have been around when every horn player played Some Skunk Funk.

Mingus is a weird one, again, because he’s definitely one of the most important composers in the music, even if lots of the tunes aren’t called all the time at sessions.

Chick Corea is great too. So I’m not knocking anyone as a composer. Just not one who comes up all the time. Though I forgot about Windows.

You’re also definitely not wrong about cliques and geographical proclivities. I used to go to this session all the time where Love Walked In was a favorite so I learned it and played it *all*the*time* … but i moved and I havent played it since. And believe me, I ask.

[John A.]

Mingus is a weird one, again, because he’s definitely one of the most important composers in the music, even if lots of the tunes aren’t called all the time at sessions.

Which I think goes to show that "gets called at sessions" is not necessarily a proxy for a cothat mposer's importance. Mingus tunes by their nature depend a lot on people knowing each other as players and/or having higher order listening and interacting skills. So they're not often called at open jam sessions, but they're in a lot of band repertoires.

Chick Corea is great too. So I’m not knocking anyone as a composer. Just not one who comes up all the time. Though I forgot about Windows.

You’re also definitely not wrong about cliques and geographical proclivities. I used to go to this session all the time where Love Walked In was a favorite so I learned it and played it *all*the*time* … but i moved and I havent played it since. And believe me, I ask.

I don't perceive what your'e saying as a knock on Chick Corea.

[pamosmusic]

Which I think goes to show that "gets called at sessions" is not necessarily a proxy for a cothat mposer's importance. Mingus tunes by their nature depend a lot on people knowing each other as players and/or having higher order listening and interacting skills. So they're not often called at open jam sessions, but they're in a lot of band repertoires.

Yeah … I mean this is my own fault for this weird idiosyncratic question, but I definitely wasn’t using “unavoidable” as a proxy for “important.”

Mingus would be an obvious one. Ornette Coleman too. But they’re tunes that are played the way you describe here. Not tunes you need to know just to be able to conduct yourself in the conversation, as it were.

And your point is taken about Love Walked In, but my point was that every area or niche has its particular tunes, but if a certain set of tunes is pretty common in some circles and not at all in others, that would imply that they actually are pretty avoidable, right?

So when I was in New York, I’d go to sessions and people would call Dexterity and Segment and whatnot … in Virginia it’s Billie’s Bounce. But you can’t avoid Charlie Parker.

On top of which, it might be a little odd if you didn’t have a Bird tune to play in place of one you didn’t know.

[JazzPadd]

Chick Corea

Spain
Windows
500 Miles High
etc.

I'm in Japan and mostly play at open jam sessions at a variety of venues.

Spain gets called fairly regularly, everybody seems to know it (except me!).
Windows got called once at a jam session, though I was not on stage.

[rictroll]

Getz


James gets called. Anything else?


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In my experience Bright Size Life, Midwestern Nights Dream, Phase Dance, and sometimes Jaco.

And the last part of Phase Dance is usually a train wreck.

[JazzPadd]

Four
Tune-up
Blue in Green
Solar
(OK, maybe not those)
Nardis
Donna Lee
Seven Steps to Heaven
Milestones
Joshua
So What (I absolutely have played it at jams many times; Impressions as well)
All Blues
Freddie Freeloader

He goes on the list.

I'd throw in Bennie Golson (Stablemates, Whisper Not, Along Came Betty, I Remember Clifford, Killer Joe ...)

I think some of the ones that are being argued over (e.g., Mingus, Chick Corea) are played a lot at the higher echelons of players, but not at the, um, aspirational levels where most of us dwell. So to some cohorts they're "unavoidable", but maybe not others. I'm not at that top level by any stretch of the imagination, but do sometimes find myself on stage at jams with and/or listening to real cats who call tunes Like Humpty Dumpty, Tones for Jones Bones, Better Git It in Your Soul, etc. There are probably also regional/scene dimensions and other fashions to this e.g., I'm old enough to have been around when every horn player played Some Skunk Funk.

That's a good point, to bring "regional/scene dimensions" into this conversation. I for one am very interested in those perspectives and experiences.

In my small corner of Japan, of the Miles tunes listed above, Four and Freddie Freeloader get called regularly at jam sessions, with Solar, So What, Nardis, All Blues and Milestones occasionally, while for Golson, Whisper Not is a regularly called tune, with Stablemates and I Remember Clifford turning up occasionally. For what it's worth, I call Killer Joe occasionally, but I haven't seen anyone else calling that here.

Most the sessions I go to are at the "aspirational level," as you say, but being a regular at several venues affords an occasional opportunity to jam with "higher echelon" players. Among the tunes we're listing here, Nardis, Milestones and I Remember Clifford fall into that category.

[Christian Miller]

In my experience Bright Size Life, Midwestern Nights Dream, Phase Dance, and sometimes Jaco.

And the last part of Phase Dance is usually a train wreck.

Just goes to show. There’s no universal canon of ‘callable tunes’

I’ve never played any of those on a gig or a jam. Only James


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[Christian Miller]

I mean if you hang out in certain circles, Jelly Roll Morton is unavoidable


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[mr. beaumont]

Just goes to show. There’s no universal canon of ‘callable tunes’

I’ve never played any of those on a gig or a jam. Only James


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That first record in particular is very much "guitar music." I've never seen any of those played unless it was a guitar led group.

[Christian Miller]

That first record in particular is very much "guitar music." I've never seen any of those played unless it was a guitar led group.

Good point!


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[pcjazz]

I mean if you hang out in certain circles, Jelly Roll Morton is unavoidable

Sure, after all he invented jazz!

[Christian Miller]

Sure, after all he invented jazz!

Haha

Tbf he was great. But also, no.


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[Webby]

Neal Hefti

[geoff23]

Did anyone mention Wes?

[pamosmusic]

Did anyone mention Wes?

Thats another one I love but that I’ve never heard anyone but guitar players play.

[Christian Miller]

I mean if you go to Gypsy jazz jams, you are going to play some Django….


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[rpjazzguitar]

I've had just about every tune mentioned called at one time or another -- but that's with a lot of people reading.

If it's going to be no-charts, the list shrinks to the usual suspects.

Of course, I'm not in NYC.