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I never bothered to see whose chords they are. I just learned them after seeing other people using them at a jam.
I don’t think I’m very curious by nature. these are the changes people I can play with use…. okay I’ll learn those. I don’t want to be the difficult guy.
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11-05-2023 05:10 PM
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Here's my take – somewhat shy of intermediate level, but maybe a bit beyond basic (maybe):
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Lovely sound of that guitar with the backing. Evocative, atmospheric, almost like film music.
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Sorry I'm late to the party! I note your desire for lots of bebop licks, Rags - but to be honest, MTK just feels like a laid back, old school swinger to me. But in deference to your desire to hear it with a bit o' bop (and because you could be right), I cut today's practice short and laid down two tracks. The first is a straight ahead swing on my Eastman 810CE7 (through SBUS and Toob Metro BG). It's a simple approach without flash or speed, but with what I think is a great groove. I found a YT backing track that does exactly what I wanted, complete with all those cool modulations.
The second is my shot at your bebop licks. You can hear my hesitation on some phrases, since I wasn't really sure that my thoughts would actually fit the tune as they were flowing out. But taking sound advice from Tower of Power, I don't change horses in the middle of a stream - so I stuck it out. This one's on the 7 string Tele through the same SBUS and TOOB. Here ya go -
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whoops
Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
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Never -
Most impressive and thanks for breaking into your practice time. Well, that first one was a blast, kept going up and up and up... while you played some very toe-tapping stuff! Enjoyed that. Great authentic sound.
The bebop sound's much more difficult, of course, and you bashed on for a good five minutes like a true trouper. And posted it. Bravo, sir! Not easy unless one is steeped in that sound, which I'm certainly not.
I'm not sure why I assumed bebop was the way to go. Probably from hearing the Sonny Rollins version before all the others. And a lot of real jazzers, like Stan Getz for example, actually play it pretty slowly.
So once again thanks. Much appreciated
(It's funny how this one tune has attracted so much attention here. Normally the place is deserted!)
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This is the sort of thing. It's a Ron Carter album but Mulgrew Miller carries it along on the piano with Russell Malone putting in the rhythmic backing on guitar (no solo). So I guess this sort of sound was in my brain, not that I can do it. Panasonic gave it a good work out, though!
Incidentally, Russell Malone's comping is a bit of a masterclass in how not to conflict with the piano.
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To be honest, Rollins’ version isn’t really boppish - it’s more post bop. He’s rarely playing very far outside in this one, and I don’t hear many classic bebop substitutions. For example, the Cm7 in bars 3 & 4 often inspired boppers to play a C# melodic minor phrase over it and the subsequent F7 would often get a phrase from the F# melodic minor scale before resolving into the Bb. Originally Posted by ragman1
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The vocabulary is pretty doggone bop though. And there are certainly a few bebop subs. Some passing diminished things he hits and the line cliche over the G minor most of the time. Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
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I wouldn't know, all that stuff's bop to me... Mind you, I do those kinds of subs myself, and worse, but no one's going to call it bebop! But I absolutely bow to your accumulated wisdom
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That’s right up my alley, thanks for sharing! Really liked your first version of the tune as well. Laid back and well played, in service of the song. That backing track is a hoot btw. Originally Posted by ragman1
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presumably if a song’s worth playing it’s also worth listening to…. Originally Posted by AllanAllen
on the other hand you end up playing all sorts of stuff on hand…
jam session ‘changes’ may not have much to do with anything. I remember well the harmonic atrocity that was the old school Real Book version of ‘Four.’ (*shudder*)
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I bet you're a hoot at jam sessions, Christian!
I'm not playing it that way! I won't, I won't, I won't!
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I guess just try to remember how much of a hoot you might have been at jam sessions before the invention of ireal
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Jazz demands a lot of its players. I asked a sax player I knew once what the hardest part of it was and he said 'Remembering the changes'. I think he usually played with his phone open on the ground. And many, many pro players have music open on stands. Nothing wrong with it that I can see.
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Haha well I’m not that much of an asshole about changes ,if you play Em7b5 A7b9 going into the B in Stella I’m not going to start shouting at you (some will tho haha)
but the ones for Four were just wrong. On a level with the missing 8 bars of desifinado.
Charts are better now, even iReal ones.
Is it not a long term goal of musicians in general to learn some music? And we long term be interested in going into some detail with our listening?
Or do we not like music?
With jams it does it depend a lot on the preferences, level and particular skill set of the musicians you play with.
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Yeah, and I like the Zombies, Elvin Jones, Charlie Parker and Red Garland versions. They don't seem to use the iReal changes. Maybe it's from the Coltrane version, which is too shrill for me, he was in his Kenny G years at that point. lol Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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Alternate chords should always be placed above the original chords. I've never seen them placed below as in this case. Originally Posted by ragman1
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Alright mofos, every key! 13 choruses, C to C.
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I think you have this backwards and Miller's playing is a masterclass in no overplaying the piano. There's a bass player to play bass and a guitar to comp, so his solo is mostly just a melody. Then when he goes back to the head, back to stepping all over the band. Originally Posted by ragman1
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Oh I sometimes forget that “Panasonic” is me.
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I can't hear him stepping on anybody when he goes back to the head (4.12). Originally Posted by AllanAllen
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To me he goes full solo piano. I mean full chords for the melody while also comping for himself. Carter and Malone could just stop and it wouldn't matter. Originally Posted by ragman1
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Bruh, Mulgrew's playing is extremely tasteful there. It isn't overbearing or domineering of the band at all. Piano involves playing more notes than guitar foo. If you want to hear a pianist really domineer the band, listen to Erroll lol.
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I’m just saying the head at the end. It’s a nitpick for this specific tune. The solo to head is a nice side by side of pianist in a band and pianist playing over a band. Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith
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