Ipanema Bridge

[AllanAllen]

Switching Dbm7 for F#m7 and Dm7 for Gm7. Seems okay to my ear, and the progression makes sense to me that way. But I don’t feel confident enough to just substitute chords by ear. No amp in the video, kids are asleep.

[pauln]

Sounds like you are playing
F#maj7 -> B9 - B7
Dbm7 -> D9 - D7
Dm7 -> Eb(9) - Eb(7)

I do analyses by ear when practicing in order to determine possibilities that suggest themselves, with attention to those which offer flexibility in performance. I think the typical stock chords are
F#maj7 -> B9
F#m7 -> D9
Gm7 -> Eb(9)

Here it is possible to conceive that all three change pairs as relatively "the same", where in hearing maj7th for the first chord of each pair the melody lead note becomes the maj7th of all three, and hearing the 13th for the second chord of each pair makes available if needed the little background line that descends from the 13th.
Conceiving is not the same playing; I may actually play it quite differently depending on the situation, but I will probably hear it like this
F#maj7 -> B13
Amaj7 -> D13
Bbmaj7 -> Eb(13)

[Lionelsax]

Switching Dbm7 for F#7 and Dm7 for Gm7. Seems okay to my ear, and the progression makes sense to me that way. But I don’t feel confident enough to just substitute chords by ear. No amp in the video, kids are asleep.

Well, what can I say ?

I try sometimes to reharmonize the bridge too.

To get a kind of "march".
I replace F#Maj7 by Ebmin9

But in fact it's just a voicing that stands for the same chord.

I sometimes replace it by Bbmin7, it is just my personal taste and it sounds like a surprise.

I also use tritonic substitution.

Your C#min9 sounds good because the 9th is in the melody.
I think you wanted to say this chord instead of B7.

In fact the melody works like this chord to chord.

7th to 3rd (F#Maj7 to B7)
9th to 3rd (F#min7 to D7)
9th to 3rd (Gmin7 to Eb7)

Then the cycle of 5ths you know

iii VI7 ii V

[AllanAllen]

Thanks! It’s cool I was doing something right.

[Roberoo]

Those substitutions work well. To take is a bit further I change up the C#m7 to a C#m7sharp5. So the chord is spelt C#ABEG# (top to bottom). I do the same to the Dmin7 that leads to the Eb9. So the chord becomes DBbCFA… Just opens up the harmony a bit.

[ragman1]

Those substitutions work well. To take is a bit further I change up the C#m7 to a C#m7sharp5. So the chord is spelt C#ABEG# (top to bottom). I do the same to the Dmin7 that leads to the Eb9. So the chord becomes DBbCFA… Just opens up the harmony a bit.

Presumably you mean Allan's original Dbm7 in #1. I know how I'd do it but how are you voicing that for guitar?

[Roberoo]

Presumably you mean Allan's original Dbm7 in #1. I know I'd do it but how are you voicing that for guitar?

. Yes, I just wrote C#min7 instead of Dbmin7. The chord voicing can be seen here

:

C#ABEG#

and it leads to the D9.

Sorry for the flipped image. It was fine when I went to attach it.

[ragman1]

Roberoo -

Thanks, the picture's quite clear. That's how I'd do it too: x47454. It's a nice chord.

[setemupjoe]

Everybody has their way of getting through that bridge.

When soloing I think
F#ma7 - F#mi6
Ama7 - Ami6
Bbma7 - Bbmi6

[Lionelsax]

. Yes, I just wrote C#min7 instead of Dbmin7. The chord voicing can be seen here

:

C#ABEG#

and it leads to the D9.

Sorry for the flipped image. It was fine when I went to attach it.

Well, it's a F#min11 chord.

[pauln]

For those keeping score at home, so far are these suggestions:

[ Bbm7 Ebm9 F#maj7 ] --------------------------> [ B7 B13 F#m6 ]
[ Amaj7 Dbm7 Dbm7#5 F#m7 F#m11 ] ----> [ Am6 D7 D13 ]
[ Bbmaj7 Dm7 Dm7#5 Gm7 Gm11 ] ---------> [ Bbm6 Eb(7) Eb(13) ]

[ragman1]

Well, it's a F#min11 chord.

No, it's a C#m7 with the 5th(G#) on the fourth string sharpened to A.

Attachment 98266

[Lionelsax]

No, it's a C#m7 with the 5th(G#) on the fourth string sharpened to A.

Attachment 98266

I'm sorry for you but it's an inversion.

[ragman1]

No, it's a C#m7. You can make anything into an inversion if you want to just by changing the name. You can play a nice ordinary C major chord:

x 3 2 0 1 0

and call it a G6sus4/C if you like. Or even an Em#5/C. But it's a bit stupid :-)

[Lionelsax]

No, it's a C#m7. You can make anything into an inversion if you want to just by changing the name. You can play a nice ordinary C major chord:

x 3 2 0 1 0

and call it a G6sus4/C if you like. Or even an Em#5/C. But it's a bit stupid :-)

When you've got time I will explain to you how it works.
I love when you try to reinvent the wheel !

[ragman1]

Lionel, the C#m7 he's playing hasn't even got an F# in it!

[Lionelsax]

Lionel, the C#m7 he's playing hasn't even got an F# in it!

Because it's just a voicing !

[Roberoo]

Because it's just a voicing !

This is an age old argument that we won’t resolve. Ragman is right in that there is no F#in the chord. Our bass player plays C# not F#. I can see how you can argue it is a voicing but ultimately I wrote it that way to make it clearer about the voice leading. You could also write it as Amaj7sus2/C#…. I know an excellent pianist in town that would write it C#m7b6 but that is confusing to me. Took me a while to understand that notation.

[Lionelsax]

I talked about it before but nobody understood, your C#min7 you find it as a Bbmin7
I think you can't understand it unless you know a bit the tune.

Well, what can I say ?

I try sometimes to reharmonize the bridge too.

To get a kind of "march".
I replace F#Maj7 by Ebmin9

But in fact it's just a voicing that stands for the same chord.

I sometimes replace it by Bbmin7, it is just my personal taste and it sounds like a surprise.

I also use tritonic substitution.

Your C#min9 sounds good because the 9th is in the melody.
I think you wanted to say this chord instead of B7.

In fact the melody works like this chord to chord.

7th to 3rd (F#Maj7 to B7)
9th to 3rd (F#min7 to D7)
9th to 3rd (Gmin7 to Eb7)

Then the cycle of 5ths you know

iii VI7 ii V

This is an age old argument that we won’t resolve. Ragman is right in that there is no F#in the chord. Our bass player plays C# not F#. I can see how you can argue it is a voicing but ultimately I wrote it that way to make it clearer about the voice leading. You could also write it as Amaj7sus2/C#…. I know an excellent pianist in town that would write it C#m7b6 but that is confusing to me. Took me a while to understand that notation.

Well, I sometimes do this but in your chord progression, your has got no root and sounds like a AM9, then you reverse it.
Well, it is not the more logical notation, you write it like this when you don't know what is about.

[Roberoo]

I talked about it before but nobody understood, your C#min7 you find it as a Bbmin7
I think you can't understand it unless you know a bit the tune.


Well, I sometimes do this but in your chord progression, your has got no root and sounds like a AM9, then you reverse it.
Well, it is not the more logical notation, you write it like this when you don't know what is about.

We understand what you are saying. There is nothing mysterious or radical in it. You replace Gbmaj7 with an Eb-9 or a Bbmin7. They are close to the same chord the Eb being a third lower and the Bb being a third higher. There is overlap. The chord I demonstrated is the third chord (originally F#-7)of the bridge is not an exactly an AM9 but could be written as AM7sus2/C# (the B natural is not an upper voice (I.e. a 9th) but buried). It is very unlikely a guitarist would pick up on the voicing I was suggesting with this notation though. On the other hand everyone knows a C#m7 chord and then you say sharp the 5 and you have the right voicing.

I like the bass voice leading in this approach. C# leads to the D in D9. That transitions to Dm7#5 to Eb in Eb9.

[Lionelsax]

That's a bad effect, your b6 sounds like an inversion, leave it !
And play
Bbmin7 / % /F7alt / %
Dbmin7 / % / Ab7alt / %
Dmin7 / % / A7alt / %

I know that's completely stupid, at the end, the "original" bridge will always sound better.

[ragman1]

Don't get caught up in a conundrum of your own making. This started with Allan who said

Switching Dbm7 for F#m7 and Dm7 for Gm7. Seems okay to my ear, and the progression makes sense to me that way.

So the sub chords are C#m7 and Dm7. That's all but, according to him, he's not necessarily confident about it.

But I don’t feel confident enough to just substitute chords by ear.

It's quite possible that Roberoo, in suggesting sharping the fives, may have resolved it. So I think it's now down to Allan; it's his thing.

(Personally, I think the Dm7 sounds okay. It's the C#m7 I'm not happy about. Subbing the iii of A maj may not be strong enough for the tune)

(But my bottom line was always I don't think the bridge needs a reharm anyway, it's pretty good as it is)

[Lionelsax]

Don't get caught up in a conundrum of your own making. This started with Allan who said



So the sub chords are C#m7 and Dm7. That's all but, according to him, he's not necessarily confident about it.



It's quite possible that Roberoo, in suggesting sharping the fives, may have resolved it. So I think it's now down to Allan; it's his thing.

(Personally, I think the Dm7 sounds okay. It's the C#m7 I'm not happy about. Subbing the iii of A maj may not be strong enough for the tune)

(But my bottom line was always I don't think the bridge needs a reharm anyway, it's pretty good as it is)

You do better than Manimal !
A parrot, a donkey, then a sheep !
But you're still yourself !
Still interesting !
Great !

[AllanAllen]

I got my answer like 3 comments in and played it my way with a pianist on Saturday. It was fine. I wish I could play with other people more, this was my first time playing standards with someone and it felt like I barely had to do anything compared to wood-shedding where every mistake feels like it needs to be addressed.

[ragman1]

Well, Allan seems to have disappeared so we can do what we like now (!). The bridge can be reharmed so I thought I'd try it.

It's a bit of fun but it's not a mickey-take, it is based on solid musical principles and works with the melody.

BM9 - % - G#m6 - %
F#m7 - % - C#m7b5 - %
CM9 - % - Bb7b5 - %
Am7 - Dm7b5 - Gm7 - Cm7b5

The BM9 (technically CbM9) is the IV chord of Gb.
The B7, if played as B13, contains G#m. I thought G#m6 sounded better.

I left the F#m7 where it was.
The C#m7b5 is actually a rootless Ab9 which is the D9 tritone.

The CM9 is because the melody uses the F maj scale and C is the IV chord.
The Bb7b5 is a tritone sub for E7 which is the V of Am7.

The Dm7b5 and Cm7b5's are just borrowed from the minor.