Blues for Alice is wrong in the RB?

[Dutchbopper]

I transcribed this head sometime back and included all the grace notes in an attempt to get the hang of Bird's articulation. Having done this for a number of his tunes, it's amazing how many inaccuracies exist in the "official" sources.

Cool. In Confirmation too all those are missing in the RB.

DB

[JCat]

I have literally no idea what you are talking about in the second half.

Just improvise over the basic functions and play strong lines that swing, just like the old bop guys did.

Sometimes these old Jazz songs are not functionally aligned. The chords played and/or written gives an ambiguous or even false functional representation. Even when there is a generally accepted functional analysis for a song, there may be alternative functional interpretations.
When in doubt, the first question usually becomes; -Is there in fact a change of key? more than once perhaps? The composer decides if he wants to highlight a change of key in the score or not. Some of these old jazz-tunes were scribbled down on a paper napkin. Later they were incorporated in the Fake book and highlighting functional key changes were not a priority, rather generally avoided. Then people just assumes that the key is what it is because it says so in Real book.

Anyway, I'm not going to give anyone a chart based on triads, don't worry, unless that's specifically what the style of the tune requires

Very good

[pcjazz]

Christian wrote: Anyway, I'm not going to give anyone a chart based on triads

At rehearsal yesterday someone handed out an old chart by a well-known arranger. It included the chord notation, “Ab pure.” Never saw that before. The pianist and I conferred briefly and agreed that it called for a triad.

And yes, big band rehearsals have resumed, albeit with bell condoms for the horn players and masks for the rhythm section. It has been almost two years …

[lawson-stone]

No inertia here. I have moved on from my original question days ago and just practised the Bird heads over the original tracks. Where the RB was wrong I used my ears. No problem. Normally a RB error is no problem anyway but for my lil' private Bird heads project I just want to play Bird's tunes exactly as he wrote and played them.

Anyway I uploaded 8 heads in the showcase section (you know, the section that gets the least views ahem) for those interested. If you think you know those heads already, try playing them unisono with Bird over the original tracks! Click here.

So far I uploaded:

Blues for Alice
Relaxin' at Camarillo
Confirmation
Au Privave
Donna Lee
Billie's Bounce
Scrapple from the Apple
Ornithology

DB

Wait... while we've all been bloviating, you've been... PLAYING????

What kind of forum do you think this is?

[Dutchbopper]

Wait... while we've all been bloviating, you've been... PLAYING???? What kind of forum do you think this is?

Ermmmm ... yes. So sorry. My apologies to all.

Must resist playing .... must resist. Must type more ...

DB

[Christian Miller]

I transcribed this head sometime back and included all the grace notes in an attempt to get the hang of Bird's articulation. Having done this for a number of his tunes, it's amazing how many inaccuracies exist in the "official" sources.

Attachment 85832

This is the best chart I've seen.

Loving the grace note detail; a few little details I missed

[Christian Miller]

I transcribed this head sometime back and included all the grace notes in an attempt to get the hang of Bird's articulation. Having done this for a number of his tunes, it's amazing how many inaccuracies exist in the "official" sources.

Attachment 85832

I do have a difference though, I hear in bar 8 Eb Db and then as a triplet Bb B A

[lawson-stone]

Ermmmm ... yes. So sorry. My apologies to all.

Must resist playing .... must resist. Must type more ...

DB

Seriously, you are inspiring me to jump into bebop heads for a while.

[sgcim]

At rehearsal yesterday someone handed out an old chart by a well-known arranger. It included the chord notation, “Ab pure.” Never saw that before. The pianist and I conferred briefly and agreed that it called for a triad.

And yes, big band rehearsals have resumed, albeit with bell condoms for the horn players and masks for the rhythm section. It has been almost two years …

I've been to a few big band rehearsals recently, and haven't seen any bell condoms on any horns. I'm the only guy with a mask (KN95), the drummer, pianist and bass player don't wear one. We even had an audience that didn't wear any masks either. A lot of them have had their boosters, including me, but I'm still wearing my mask. I hung out at the bar to watch the Giants game after rehearsal Monday night, and none of the bar patrons wore masks, and made some snide comments about me wearing a mask.

They did a study about brass and wind instruments, and the most dangerous instrument in regards to COVID is the flute. The other instruments' air streams are uni-directional, but the flute's air stream is deflected multi-directionally by blowing at an angle and bouncing all over the place.

I wrote almost 30 charts for big band over the lock down, and got to hear two of them sight read by the band. One was an original, and the other an obscure tune that none of them knew. They made mistakes, didn't observe the dynamics, and the trumpets couldn't nail the high notes I wrote, so I took them down an octave today.
These guys are very good players, but no one's perfect. If I had to sight read the stuff I wrote, I'd fall on my face. It's difficult music to sight read at a pretty fast tempo. These guys can play Thad & Mel charts perfectly, but they've played that stuff a million times before. They've never seen or heard any of my stuff, so it's pure sight reading, and I've heard some of the best screw up in situations like that.

[Christian Miller]

Dynamics? You wrote dynamics for a big band?

There are two dynamics they will observe: ‘loud’ and ‘three pints later’

[Christian Miller]

Seriously, you are inspiring me to jump into bebop heads for a while.

Its the one of the best things you can do with your time I think. Many of the advantages of studying solos but you also get a tune to play at the end of it.

[Jonah]

I find particular pleasure in picking up bop heads by ear even if do not play them a lot later
(same cocerns later original jazz pieces but often more about harmonic solutions, voicings)

But I find RB can be a nice source for playing conventional old song standards if one has a good ear and understanding of harmonic and melodic language to notice some - often not even wrong but awkward and clumsy things they there... I like open it in the middle sometimes and go through some unknown 30-40s tune from the chart

[lawson-stone]

Its the one of the best things you can do with your time I think. Many of the advantages of studying solos but you also get a tune to play at the end of it.

I'm guessing it is best to start with blues heads? I never saw a list of bop heads in order of difficulty; that might be interesting.

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

I've been to a few big band rehearsals recently, and haven't seen any bell condoms on any horns. I'm the only guy with a mask (KN95), the drummer, pianist and bass player don't wear one. We even had an audience that didn't wear any masks either. A lot of them have had their boosters, including me, but I'm still wearing my mask. I hung out at the bar to watch the Giants game after rehearsal Monday night, and none of the bar patrons wore masks, and made some snide comments about me wearing a mask.

That's the problem with "leave it up to the individual". Here in British Columbia we still have a provincial order for masks indoors. It works.

They did a study about brass and wind instruments, and the most dangerous instrument in regards to COVID is the flute. The other instruments' air streams are uni-directional, but the flute's air stream is deflected multi-directionally by blowing at an angle and bouncing all over the place.

My younger daughter played flute. One time, orchestra members switched instruments and she told us the other wind players were surprised how much wind a flute needs. Of course, they hadn't mastered it.

[pcjazz]

Dynamics? You wrote dynamics for a big band?

There are two dynamics they will observe: ‘loud’ and ‘three pints later’

And louder means faster.

[Hugo Gainly]

Dynamics? You wrote dynamics for a big band?

There are two dynamics they will observe: ‘loud’ and ‘three pints later’

Nice. My normal 'joke' is "Dynamics? I'm playing as loud as I can!"

[sgcim]

That's the problem with "leave it up to the individual". Here in British Columbia we still have a provincial order for masks indoors. It works.




My younger daughter played flute. One time, orchestra members switched instruments and she told us the other wind players were surprised how much wind a flute needs. Of course, they hadn't mastered it.

Here in the United States of Antagonism, it varies from one indoor venue to another, other than health care offices. There they actually seem to care about health measures. Can you imagine that?

[rpjazzguitar]

I play with a kb player who has tablets that he hands out to the sidemen. He doesn't yet have the bluetooth control thing implemented. When he does, as I understand it, he controls what everybody sees.

That's perfect for a one page chart. For two pages, you can set them up side by side on screen. If you can read the smaller font, it works. If you need it bigger you're turning pages.

My book has lots of three page arrangements, some four pagers and one five. I have other long ones, but they get unmanageable on the music stand.

On screen, the page turns can be tricky, especially if the sign isn't in the usual place on page 1 after the intro.

In practice, what has happened at jams is that some people are on paper and others have tablets. The paper guys have the original RB, a later edition or a Sher book, and the charts are different. The tablet guys seem to have a different set of issues, with guys bluetoothing each other pdfs and trying to open them.

Back in the day, everybody had the same RB and we spend more time actually playing.

I imagine that we're in a transitional period and, sooner or later, it will standardize. Meanwhile, it's frustrating to count off a standard and have an immediate train wreck because the trumpet's chart has an intro the pianist doesn't have, or something.

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

I play with a kb player who has tablets that he hands out to the sidemen. He doesn't yet have the bluetooth control thing implemented. When he does, as I understand it, he controls what everybody sees.

That's perfect for a one page chart. For two pages, you can set them up side by side on screen. If you can read the smaller font, it works. If you need it bigger you're turning pages.

My book has lots of three page arrangements, some four pagers and one five. I have other long ones, but they get unmanageable on the music stand.

On screen, the page turns can be tricky, especially if the sign isn't in the usual place on page 1 after the intro.

In practice, what has happened at jams is that some people are on paper and others have tablets. The paper guys have the original RB, a later edition or a Sher book, and the charts are different. The tablet guys seem to have a different set of issues, with guys bluetoothing each other pdfs and trying to open them.

Back in the day, everybody had the same RB and we spend more time actually playing.

I imagine that we're in a transitional period and, sooner or later, it will standardize. Meanwhile, it's frustrating to count off a standard and have an immediate train wreck because the trumpet's chart has an intro the pianist doesn't have, or something.

Footswitch page turner:

Amazon.com

[Jonah]

Footswitch page turner:

Amazon.com

Feet can be busy...
We need eye switch... you just wink and the page turns.
Only remember not to wink in between.

[PMB]

This is the best chart I've seen.

Loving the grace note detail; a few little details I missed

Thanks. Love the Stravinsky-like downward grace note that Bird plays in bar 2 (D to B). Not sure if you mean bar 6 or 8 for the triplet figure. If it's bar 6, maybe you're hearing a flourish in the trumpet? It's common to find notes turning up in Parker transcriptions that are actually played by trumpet, piano or even the bass in a higher register.

[PMB]

On the topic of Parker heads, has anyone checked this out? I haven't but I like that it includes all the counter-lines:

https://qpress.ca/product/60-melodie...rker-omnibook/

[Christian Miller]

Thanks. Love the Stravinsky-like downward grace note that Bird plays in bar 2 (D to B). Not sure if you mean bar 6 or 8 for the triplet figure. If it's bar 6, maybe you're hearing a flourish in the trumpet? It's common to find notes turning up in Parker transcriptions that are actually played by trumpet, piano or even the bass in a higher register.

Yep bar 6. Listened again, it’s a split note and parkers on the higher. I am indeed following the trumpet line

my hat’s off. I award you all of the jazz points!

still playing the enclosure though, it’s what people play mostly I think

Jazz musicians - they never play the same thing once

[pcjazz]

On the topic of Parker heads, has anyone checked this out? I haven't but I like that it includes all the counter-lines:

Charlie Parker's 60 Melodies & Solos by Parker, Charlie, Van Bebber, Michael - qPress

It comes in multiple versions including one for guitar, which is transposed an octave above the C treble clef version. I requested comparison pages from those two versions and found the guitar book has a dizzying array of ledger lines above the staff. Better, IMO, to go with the C treble clef version for easier reading no matter what octave you choose to play in.

Unlike the original Omnibook, Van Bebber’s charts have key signatures. The chord symbols are minimal, with few if any extensions. I don’t know that it contains all the counterlines; there is no indication of the trumpet line in BFA for example.

I compared the first 4 bars of BFA to PMB’s transcription in this thread.

Bar 1: PMB has FM7 which captures the E note; VB has F6 which doesn’t (there is no D in the bar). PMB shows an articulation at beat 3 which VB lacks.

Bar 2: PMB has Em7/A7b9; VB has Em7/A7. VB lacks both of the articulations in PMB.

Bar 3: On beat 2, where PMB has two eighth notes (F-D), VB has a triplet (F-G-C#).

Bar 4: PMB has Cm7/F7#5; VB has Cm7/F7. On beat 1, both show a triplet but VB doesn’t give a pitch for the top note (marking it ‘x’). On the last beat PMB has a triplet; VB has an eighth note and two sixteenths.

[Christian Miller]

As a reflection of bop practice I like simple chord symbols. I might treat that first chord for instance as F7, Fmaj7 or F6…. F6 is a nice, open choice.

But this is quite in opposition to the paradigm used in modern jazz education where the chord symbol reflects the melodic notes. I think this has advantages and disadvantages. When it comes down to it chord symbols are just a cheat really.