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I have doubts about the Spotify data. Who has listened to 30 million songs? I would put the rent money on 'nobody'. How does one go about finding the key for that many songs using a computer, the only possible way to do it?
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05-06-2019 09:13 AM
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Yeah, I heard about it on the radio about a year ago and it's a computer algorithm behind it. A Music professor was interviewed and he gave a number of examples why this could not be 100% accurate. For example sometimes its not possible to tell, just by sound, if a song is major or minor, hence not possible to identify key. But it gets even more complicated when we consider that the fundamental frequencies defining a key have changed over the years, and that some music was recorded on poorly tuned instruments as well as the fact that some recordings was deliberatly detuned.
Originally Posted by sgosnell
However, the big picture seems plausible and in line with a music reality not dominated by horns
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Concert Db is Eb for the Bb instruments (trumpet, soprano sax, tenor sax) and is Bb for the Eb instruments (alto & bari sax). It's all deference to the horns. Originally Posted by docsteve
Is the horse dead yet?
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Regarding Spotify, I am afraid that it dominated by the recent musical garbage (I mean listening for example the top 10 on Spotify is practically a poison for both ear and soul, don't try this at home). This mass of tunes represents a different musical "culture" than jazz standards, probably different trends and rules apply. Originally Posted by JCat
However, the big picture seems plausible and in line with a music reality not dominated by horns
Also there are the classical recordings (which are not garbage of course) but their statistical weight is corrupted by two reasons:
- say an "a minor" variations opus counts 30 "songs", all in a minor. In general: all movement in an opus counts separately, because it is a "tune" itself.
- more known the opus, more separate recordings exist (sometime 50s - 100s) which all counts
(btw the latter may corrupt jazz tune statistics on Spotify too)
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I think the C# Db anomaly is all the tunes from the 60's in C and D when tuning was apparently optional.
Yeah, I'm looking at you, Rolling Stones
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They clearly didn't ask Blooz Daddy guitarists, or there would have been more in E.
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Fair enough, but rest assured my humble repertoire is not garbage and it happens to coincide with the Spotify stats, albeit mine is a very tiny sample, a drop in the ocean, but a very nice little drop that inspires to bias confirmation Originally Posted by Gabor
(Regarding music available on Spotify, I have no idea of the quality/garbage ratio. The Spotify AI is not clever enough to recommend adequate music, so obviously I have to make my own playlists, i.e quality every time.)
Another music professor was head over heels delighted over the fact that an astonishing number of contributions to the Eurovision Song Contest were submitted in C# minor. -"How mostly unusual, and inspiring!"...Hmm...Isn't this just a guitar singer song writers approach to minor as the parallel key to E Major?
Anyway, horns are nice, but no way I'm gonna let them decide what key to play in. A horn player worth his salt has no problems with C, D, G, A....
0.9% A major in Real book. eek.
Last edited by JCat; 05-07-2019 at 01:20 AM.
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Spotify has albums by every artist imaginable how can you call it garbage?
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It is maybe my English. Originally Posted by joe2758
I used the word "dominated" and what I meant is the ratio. Of course all my heroes are there both the historical ones and the recent artist. I also appreciate and listen not only the jazz standards and jazz recordings, but Beatles, Led Zeppelin, ELP and many country music too. Also all my classical listening comes from there and it (Spotify) is invaluable listening resource.
I was talking about statistics, that the top 10 has 30 million listeners per month and the jazz is not dominated there so not dominated neither in the statistics.
@JCat: this explanation also goes for you, my intention was not to degrade other styles than jazz standards.
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Oh ok, so that's just a critique on musical taste, not spotify
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Here are the refined statistics, where major and its relative minor are in one bucket:
F/D-: 194/37 (23.1%)
Eb/C-: 154/43 (19.7%)
C/A-: 153/8 (16.1%)
Bb/G-: 134/24 (15.8%)
G/E-: 88/8 (9.6%)
Ab/F-: 50/40 (9%)
Db/Bb-: 19/13 (3.1%)
D/B-: 12/1 (1.3%)
Gb/Eb-: 2/9 (1.2%)
E/C#-: 2/4 (.6%)
A/F#-: 2/0 (.2%)
B/G#-: 2/1 (.3%)
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Total of 1000 tunes
I've also processed a completely other source of 1350 jazz standards, just for cross checking. I mean it is mainly the same set of tunes, but the source is different, so the typo-s, some key transpositions and potential processing errors could be different, so ideal for cross check the main trend:
F/D-: 240/37 (20.5%)
C/A-: 235/25 (19.3%)
Eb/C-: 204/49 (18.7%)
Bb/G-: 175/27 (15%)
G/E-: 113/12 (9.3%)
Ab/F-: 75/36 (8.2%)
Db/Bb-: 37/18 (4.1%)
D/B-: 23/8 (2.3%)
A/F#-: 10/0 (.7%)
E/C#-: 4/2 (.4%)
B/G#-: 4/2 (.4%)
Gb/Eb-: 1/13 (1%)
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Total of 1350 tunes
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Gabor, thanks for providing the stats...0.2% A major...it's getting worse
I quote docsteve: "Horns love flats, strings love sharps."
(My repertoire I was referring to is 90% Jazz standards, but transcribed for solo guitar in any appropriate key decided by me. For rhythm work and improvisation, key doesn't matter.)
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Which version of the Real Book did you pull this from? In many editions/versions, some of the tunes are not in the "standard" keys. The original (illegal) Real Books also have a bunch of tunes that nobody ever plays (I'm lookin' at you Harrison Crabfeathers). So this might not really be a clear picture of the breakdown of what keys people actually play in. FWIW, in my experience Eb, Bb, and F, is probably 75% of what gets called. C, Ab, and G gets you somewhere close to 99.9%. Originally Posted by Gabor
John
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Please see the more refined versions in a later post where EDIT link jumps in the original post (or use this link) Originally Posted by John A.
- the original 1000 sample summarizes the Jazz Standard Progressions Book (google for phrase, 1st link will be, or at least on the top)
- the 1350 sample summarizes the IReal Pro forums 1350 jazz tunes list, google for [1350 irealb]
I think both based on the Hal Leonard Real Book, but I am not sure
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I did see that, but didn't quite follow. I'm old, so when people say "The Real Book," assume they mean the original illegal Real Book(s), hence my comment. SFAIK, the 1350 iRealPro tunes are not from a single source. They're crowdsourced -- it's a mix of people's transcriptions and changes pulled from published sources (legal and not). That also has some non-standard keys set as defaults, but IME fewer than the (illegal) Real Books. I've never actually used the legal ones ... Originally Posted by Gabor
John
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