November 2016 - All the Things You Are

[christianm77]

I think probably I'm lucky because I have it fairly naturally but a lot of it is familiarity with the tune. Uncertainty can certainly make one speed up/slow down inadvertently. I think knowing what you're playing definitely helps timing.

I think we all have great time innately. Things get in the way and make it seem like we don't.

1) not understanding what rhythms we are trying to play - not hearing them in detail
2) psychological pressures, trying to hard, feeling nervous
3) not knowing the music
4) technical problems
5) the instrument dominating our concerns rather than being the conduit through which music passes

All of these things can be worked on. In any case the playing with yourself (fnarr fnarr) exercise is a very interesting and humbling one with particular reference to melodies I find, at least with me. Phrasing syncopations etc, not dropping or adding in time, surprisingly hard.

I have to really focus on feeling the beat all the way through melodies and knowing exactly where I am placing each note with reference to a felt pulse. Fantastic practice. Most guitarists are pretty weak on melodies, even otherwise high level guys.

Single note lines in eighths are not so bad. Quite easy in fact.

Single note lines with gaps of a bar or more? That's a lot of fun.

[KirkP]

Here's a live excerpt of a duet rendition from a recent gig..apologies for bad video

A musical conversation. Nice!

[KirkP]

In the meantime, Jimmy Bruno has a cool cut of All the things you are. Thoughts?

Brilliant! In your face, but not a wasted note. The essence of the melody is retained throughout. No noodling over changes. I'd be just as happy (or maybe happier) if it were a bit slower, but I haven't had my morning coffee yet.

[ragman1]

I think we all have great time innately.

Not sure. It might be a bit like being able to sing in tune. I've known several disastrous time-keepers. One guy swore by his metronome (whereas I'm allergic to them!) but even so he always started to speed about halfway through a tune. But he was rather nervy by nature.

I agree totally with your list. Doubtless most of that applied to this bloke too as well as his natural nervous tendency. The answer's probably all these things together.

censored

Quite disgusting.

Single note lines in eighths are not so bad. Quite easy in fact.

Single note lines with gaps of a bar or more? That's a lot of fun.

Absolutely. Not sure how I'd fare myself on that one seeing as I like my gaps, held notes and pauses.

[PaulD]

Here's a very quick take I did today.

Paul

[mr. beaumont]

Man, Paul, liking you on the Tele!

[KirkP]

Tele?

Close! It's a 1970 Strat with blocked tremolo, all three pickups on, and treble rolled off a bit. A touch of sizzle still comes through.

[christianm77]

Not sure. It might be a bit like being able to sing in tune. I've known several disastrous time-keepers. One guy swore by his metronome (whereas I'm allergic to them!) but even so he always started to speed about halfway through a tune. But he was rather nervy by nature.

I agree totally with your list. Doubtless most of that applied to this bloke too as well as his natural nervous tendency. The answer's probably all these things together.



Quite disgusting.



Absolutely. Not sure how I'd fare myself on that one seeing as I like my gaps, held notes and pauses.

Well you have to give it a go to find out.

This exercise I learned from Lage Lund btw, I didn't invent it and I'm sure he got it somewhere else.

Re: time, often people who rely too much on the click have flakey time away from it. Playing with a click on 2 and 4, say, is a crutch if you do it all the time.

He's probably speeding up because he is unused to having to play with his internal pulse and is 'trying' to play in time. As you say he is nervy. It's quite possible to be completely neurotic about your time and it won't help...

You need to mix it up and find intelligent ways to practice with and without a click IMO. But time/feel is another whole discussion.

[ragman1]

Well you have to give it a go to find out.

I just did. I put down a click track at 120 and played ATTYA from the music with precise timing. Then I muted a chunk in the middle, turned off the click and tried it out.

Goes 1 and 2 I sped up, playing it by ear. 3 was nearly there. 4 was good but only because I was counting. Which, of course, is death to music.

But does it really matter? If I was playing solo who would notice? And if I wasn't, no problem.

But I never play precisely anyway. Nature has no straight lines:-)


PS. Did you know why people found Julie Andrew's voice so irritating? Because she had perfect pitch...

[KirkP]

I am confused. Does PKirk = KirkP, or as at least one of them might put it, is PKirk commutative?

Anyhow, beautiful clip.

Thanks! We're not the same guy - one's a surname and the other a first name. He's the more advanced player, so don't judge him by my posts!
I think we both happen to have Math degrees, but he stuck with it and I went into engineering.

[unknownguitarplayer]

Thanks! We're not the same guy - one's a surname and the other a first name. He's the more advanced player, so don't judge him by my posts!
I think we both happen to have Math degrees, but he stuck with it and I went into engineering.

Thanks for clearing that up. I've met Paul and played with him and I agree, he's a terrific player. But I really like the legato feel you were able to keep going throughout. Extra points for keeping the forward motion going without explicitly playing the bass line.

[KirkP]

Thanks for clearing that up. I've met Paul and played with him and I agree, he's a terrific player. But I really like the legato feel you were able to keep going throughout. Extra points for keeping the forward motion going without explicitly playing the bass line.

Thanks, that's helpful. I wish I'd been able to do a little more with the bass, but my focus was on the melody and harmony so I'd toss in a few bass notes when I had a free finger. I might try another run with a bit more bass voicing. I'm glad the sense of time still came through.

[christianm77]

I just did. I put down a click track at 120 and played ATTYA from the music with precise timing. Then I muted a chunk in the middle, turned off the click and tried it out.

Goes 1 and 2 I sped up, playing it by ear. 3 was nearly there. 4 was good but only because I was counting. Which, of course, is death to music.

But does it really matter? If I was playing solo who would notice? And if I wasn't, no problem.

But I never play precisely anyway. Nature has no straight lines:-)


PS. Did you know why people found Julie Andrew's voice so irritating? Because she had perfect pitch...

That's not the exercise I meant. You don't use a click at all. You record your lead line without any click and then you play along with yourself afterwards.

Much more fun and creative. But also pretty revealing.

It's not about metronomic time actually. The metronome can be useful as a tool of diagnosis and there are some fun things you can do with it, but the thing I love about this exercise is it teaches you about human time, how you feel as a player, which is the kind of time we actually use when playing music.

[ragman1]

Christian -

Just picked up your tuition vids on YouTube, Gypsy and Swing, Line cliches etc. Not bad.

Did you know there was a sort of bass version of the m, m/maj7, m7, m6 thing?

Eg, in Dm, you'd play Dm (x5776x), Db+ (x4322x), F/C (x3321x), Bm7b5 (x2323x).

It's really useful if you want the right sound without it interfering too much with a treble melody.

[christianm77]

Isn't this exactly what PaulD did in post no. 111 above? Did an excellent job of it too.

Cool I've not been able to check out all the posts due to being in forn parts.

[christianm77]

Christian -

Just picked up your tuition vids on YouTube, Gypsy and Swing, Line cliches etc. Not bad.

Did you know there was a sort of bass version of the m, m/maj7, m7, m6 thing?

Eg, in Dm, you'd play Dm (x5776x), Db+ (x4322x), F/C (x3321x), Bm7b5 (x2323x).

It's really useful if you want the right sound without it interfering too much with a treble melody.

Of course. There are several different harmonisations - that's one of the more traditional jazz ones.

As a result of this its fun to play Db whole tone over Dm/C# for example. You can do it over any minor actually...

[christianm77]

Just tried it. No warm up, straight out of bed, 130mph. After making a coffee.

I dropped one eighth note at the C7+. Apart from that, pretty good.

I think it's just habit, really.


I have it here if you want PROOF!!!

Excellent, I'll take your word for it.

[ragman1]

Of course. There are several different harmonisations - that's one of the more traditional jazz ones.

Right, thanks. I better start investigating!

As a result of this its fun to play Db whole tone over Dm/C# for example. You can do it over any minor actually...

Yes, or even D dim. Or even F# harm. That actually works quite nicely.

[KirkP]

I sometimes immerse myself in a tune by streaming a bunch of versions while doing chores or winding down for sleep. I feel this helps me internalize the tune and helps me form my own interpretation.
Amazon has a nice collection of 27 classic versions of ATTYA from straight ballads to bebop. Streaming is free for Amazon Prime subscribers. The mo3s can be purchased for about $6. I don't find it on CD or through other venders.
All the Things You Are (27 Versions) at Amazon

[rlrhett]

I sometimes immerse myself in a tune by streaming a bunch of versions while doing chores or winding down for sleep. I feel this helps me internalize the tune and helps me form my own interpretation.
Amazon has a nice collection of 27 classic versions of ATTYA from straight ballads to bebop. Streaming is free for Amazon Prime subscribers. The mo3s can be purchased for about $6. I don't find it on CD or through other venders.
All the Things You Are (27 Versions) at Amazon

That is very cool. Are there other jazz standards in collections like this, or is this just coincidentally available for this months practical standard?

I too like to listen to many versions of a song over and over before I try to learn it. Not always easy to set up, especially since I don't necessarily want to buy multiple versions of a time. I usually rely on YouTube.


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[ragman1]

I like the way the artists are sedately listed: C.Baker, C.Mingus, W. Montgomery, D. Reinhardt... :-)

[KirkP]

That is very cool. Are there other jazz standards in collections like this, or is this just coincidentally available for this months practical standard?

Here's the Clifford Brown track from that collection. I wonder who the guitarist is.

There's at least one misnamed tune. Munk's track is actually "Round Midnight".
Enter the following in Google (with the quotes) and you'll find collections of a few other tunes:
Amazon "versions performed by"
I found collections of Autumn Leaves, Autumn in New York, Stella, Aint Misbehavin, Cherokee, Mood Indigo.

[ragman1]

Jimmy Gourley. It's in the notes, no pun intended, on YouTube. The picture goes funny by itself.

[pkirk]

Thanks! We're not the same guy - one's a surname and the other a first name. He's the more advanced player, so don't judge him by my posts!
I think we both happen to have Math degrees, but he stuck with it and I went into engineering.

I'm not sure about the "more advanced" part, I loved your rendition. And I was so embarrassed by the version I posted after re-listening to it that I took it down.

Thanks for clearing that up. I've met Paul and played with him and I agree, he's a terrific player. But I really like the legato feel you were able to keep going throughout. Extra points for keeping the forward motion going without explicitly playing the bass line.

Unknownguitarplayer is a *great* player (and also has math tendencies). Nice to see him contribute to this series, which I find the nicest part of this forum, as it's about sharing the fruits of our beloved hobby in a relaxed, no-judgement way.

I'll put up one more:
SoundClick artist: Paul Kirk - page with MP3 music downloads

again, my playing is sloppy and the sound quality awful, so I don't know how long I'll leave this up. But I've played a few gigs recently with the vibes/bass/guitar line-up, which I love: the vibes and guitar mesh really well. I'll have to dig out my old Red Norvo vinyls and give them another listen.

[KirkP]

I'm not sure about the "more advanced" part, I loved your rendition. And I was so embarrassed by the version I posted after re-listening to it that I took it down.




Unknownguitarplayer is a *great* player (and also has math tendencies). Nice to see him contribute to this series, which I find the nicest part of this forum, as it's about sharing the fruits of our beloved hobby in a relaxed, no-judgement way.

I'll put up one more:
SoundClick artist: Paul Kirk - page with MP3 music downloads

again, my playing is sloppy and the sound quality awful, so I don't know how long I'll leave this up. But I've played a few gigs recently with the vibes/bass/guitar line-up, which I love: the vibes and guitar mesh really well. I'll have to dig out my old Red Norvo vinyls and give them another listen.

Track9 I assume. Really tasteful!