Billie's Bouncing back

[jameslovestal]

Great progress Cliff.

I try to channel this version by Jimmy Raney:

[CliffR]

Great progress Cliff.

I try to channel this version by Jimmy Raney:

Thanks James! And thinks for the Jimmy Raney link. What a great version!

[CliffR]

Trying to add a little more ornamentation to my lines. (I do get lost in the form at one point, but - I think - recover reasonably well.) Also, some slightly more sophisticated chords in the intro.

[CliffR]

This month's instalment of Billie's Bounce improv. No head or chords this time.

[CliffR]

Seems I got a hair cut and new guitar since the last time I posted one of these. Been working on the timing for the head. Hopefully it's a bit better.

[James W]

Sounds good, Cliff.

[GuyBoden]

Keep up the good work, enjoy yourself, Cliff.

[charlieparker]

Seems I got a hair cut and new guitar since the last time I posted one of these. Been working on the timing for the head. Hopefully it's a bit better.

Wow. I don't hear many people improve as much as this.

[CliffR]

Wow. I don't hear many people improve as much as this.

That's so kind of you to say - thanks!

Thanks James and Guy too!

[charlieparker]

That's so kind of you to say - thanks!

Thanks James and Guy too!

I put Brent, Digger, and James in this bucket, too, and probably others.

Some people seem to pick it up right away and some like myself get stuck in a rut but others seem to make steady practice which is inspiring for those of us who are kind of stuck

[GuyBoden]

Some people seem to pick it up right away and some like myself get stuck in a rut but others seem to make steady practice which is inspiring for those of us who are kind of stuck

Everything takes time, so whatever level you're at doesn't really matter, it's a hobby, so have fun.

[James W]

Everything takes time, so whatever level you're at doesn't really matter, it's a hobby, so have fun.

I'd imagine pros have fun too.

[CliffR]

I put Brent, Digger, and James in this bucket, too, and probably others.

Some people seem to pick it up right away and some like myself get stuck in a rut but others seem to make steady practice which is inspiring for those of us who are kind of stuck

I'm now partly into my seventh year of playing jazz, so I certainly don't think I've picked it up right away . When I started, a friend told me it took her around ten years to become respectable. I still have my fingers crossed for that . I guess one of the worries about this hobby is it takes just so damned long to get good that you start to wonder if in fact you ever will.... A short story I read by Tennessee Williams decades ago keeps coming back to mind. It's about a man who sacrifices his life and family to the goal of writing a novel. At some point Tennessee's authorial voice intervenes and says words to the effect of 'and it wasn't even a very good novel'.

I should also mention, although my chops are not great, I have spent several decades on and off playing guitar, and spent a few years before jazz on running scales, sweeps etc etc. I do think a certain technical facility has to be learnt to play this music, even at modest tempos. You'll get there, mister CP!

[digger]

I put Brent, Digger, and James in this bucket, too, and probably others.

Some people seem to pick it up right away and some like myself get stuck in a rut but others seem to make steady practice which is inspiring for those of us who are kind of stuck

I'm not sure what I've done to deserve a mention alongside Cliff and Brent! But thank you, anyway CP.

These days I'm careful to describe myself (if anyone asks, which actually they don't, so this is mostly when I'm talking to myself) as a swing player rather than a jazz player. This is partly because I love swing music (whether Benny Goodman with all those great players stretching from Allan Reuss through to Chris Flory), Django style Gypsy Swing, Western Swing, Flatpicking Swing, Kansas City Swing, West Coast Uptown Swing and everything else that swings (inlcuding an awful lot of clarinet music), but mainly because I can't improvise and having followed many discussions here I've concluded I can't therefore describe myself as a jazz player.

I'm a licks player, pure and simple, and these days I base my playing on two famous people and I adhere to a quote from each.

Firstly it's Louis Armstrong who said "... the first chorus I play the melody. The second chorus I play the melody around the melody, and the third chorus I routines."

And secondly it's Detective Harry Callahan, who said "A man's gotta know his limitations."

I know my limitation - I can't routine. So I figure two thirds of Louis Armstrong isn't bad. I play the melody (and I've actually found that non-musician audiences like this a lot[*]) and then I play around the melody (some of those aforementioned licks) and then I nod to the piano player and go back to my favoured role of playing the rhythm.

Derek
[*] I see the "why isn't jazz more popular?" thread is still ticking on, and when I read all the other threads here, the audience is so rarely mentioned (or, I assume, considered), that's where I think the answer lies. But I digress.

[brent.h]

Derek, you and I both have a similar philosophy: melodies and audience matter the most!

---

Man, you know, when non-musicians or guitarists who are non-jazzers ask me what I play, I just say old music and old pop. Then they go, 'Oh, oldies from the 60s?' and I go, 'Nah, older like 20s or 30s.'

Sometimes guitarists will press on and say, 'You mean jazz?' and then I try to change the subject or distract them with a 'Hey, let's get some ice cream' type nonsense just so I don't use the word 'jazz'.

This term has unfortunately come to only mean a very cerebral improvisational style that only a select few will get (which of course is not true because there's trad, swing, etc. that's a lot more physical and dance-oriented). In my experience, when the typical bluesman/rocker associates me with their idea of 'jazz', they act all funny around me and some kind of inferiority complex surfaces with passing remarks such as 'oh you play jazz, you're so much better than me', or 'i only know 3 chords for what i play', etc. So yeah, I die a little inside when this association is made because I'm simply not better than them, I can't do the things they do like shred pentatonic stuff, and I admire/like a lot of rock (I grew up on alt rock).

I've also met bluesman/rockers in real life from jam sessions who renounce their roots and try to get into the jazz thing because they think that being able hear and improvise on the spot is the pinnacle of music; they buy gear, instructionals, take lessons with pros, etc. But they are very unhappy with their music and themselves.

There was even one user on this forum who used to complain about not getting jazz and not being able to improvise. (You've interacted with him, actually.) I found him on r/jazzguitar - same writing style, same gripes, very easy to spot - doing the same thing, complaining even more loudly and vehemently and challenging random users to prove him wrong with claims such as 'Some people simply are not cut out for jazz and cannot improvise. Fight Me.' (paraphrased; the Fight Me part is not paraphrased).

In every one of his posts, he keeps bringing up how he graduated from college doing music, toured with bands doing metal music, has had record deals, multiple albums, has all kinds of gear, done all kinds of transcriptions, etc. yet hears nothing in his head when it comes to jazz. He goes on and on about how 'jazz' is merciless, unforgiving, or how it will crush you. He's been complaining for 8+ years since 2018, and last I checked, he's still on the subreddit complaining with a different username. Many people have responded to him here and on the subreddit to offer tips, but he's not gotten any better or happier. All this because of 'jazz' and what it connotes. This is not good for mental health.

I told him on the subreddit once, bro be proud of what you can do. I can't do what you do. I can't shred, and I don't have the guts to play huge screaming crowds at a screaming volume and connect with them. You're doing everything I wish I could do - melodies and audience.

---

Just be happy doing what you do, double down on it, and own it! Rock, blues, country, swing, whatever. Play things you like. Don't play things you don't like. Don't waste time being miserable, especially not with 'jazz'.

[Christian Miller]

Derek, you and I both have a similar philosophy: melodies and audience matter the most!

Man, you know, when non-musicians or guitarists who are non-jazzers ask me what I play, I just say old music and old pop. Then they go, 'Oh, oldies from the 60s?' and I go, 'Nah, older like 20s or 30s.'

Sometimes guitarists will press on and say, 'You mean jazz?' and then I try to change the subject or distract them with a 'Hey, let's get some ice cream' type nonsense just so I don't use the word 'jazz'.

This term has unfortunately come to only mean a very cerebral improvisational style that only a select few will get (which of course is not true because there's trad, swing, etc. that's a lot more physical and dance-oriented). In my experience, when the typical bluesman/rocker associates me with their idea of 'jazz', they act all funny around me and some kind of inferiority complex surfaces with passing remarks such as 'oh you play jazz, you're so much better than me', or 'i only know 3 chords for what i play', etc. So yeah, I die a little inside when this association is made because I'm simply not better than them, I can't do the things they do like shred pentatonic stuff, and I admire/like a lot of rock (I grew up on alt rock).

I've also met bluesman/rockers in real life from jam sessions who renounce their roots and try to get into the jazz thing because they think that being able hear and improvise on the spot is the pinnacle of music; they buy gear, instructionals, take lessons with pros, etc. But they are very unhappy with their music and themselves.

There was even one user on this forum who used to complain about not getting jazz and not being able to improvise. (You've interacted with him, actually.) I found him on r/jazzguitar - same writing style, same gripes, very easy to spot - doing the same thing, complaining even more loudly and vehemently and challenging random users to prove him wrong with claims such as 'Some people simply are not cut out for jazz and cannot improvise. Fight Me.' (paraphrased; the Fight Me part is not paraphrased). In every one of his posts, he keeps bringing up how he graduated from college doing music, toured with bands doing metal music, has had record deals, multiple albums, has all kinds of gear, done all kinds of transcriptions, etc. yet hears nothing in his head when it comes to jazz. He goes on and on about how 'jazz' is merciless, unforgiving, or how it will crush you. He's been complaining for 8+ years since 2018, and last I checked, he's still on the subreddit complaining with a different username. Many people have responded to him here and on the subreddit to offer tips, but he's not gotten any better or happier. All this because of 'jazz'. This is not good for mental health.

I told him on the subreddit once, bro be proud of what you can do. I can't do what you do. I can't shred, and I don't have the guts to play huge screaming crowds at a screaming volume and connect with them. You're doing everything I wish I could do - melodies and audience.

Just be happy doing what you do, double down on it, and own it! Rock, blues, country, swing, whatever. Play things you like. Don't play things you don't like. Don't waste time being miserable, especially not with 'jazz'.

I do think there’s people out there who see jazz as the final boss of music


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Christian Miller]

Sorry Cliff I haven’t actually commented on the recording. Well done! As other have said you are making progress. The head is sounding really good now. I think you have a process that’s working.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CliffR]

Sorry Cliff I haven’t actually commented on the recording. Well done! As other have said you are making progress. The head is sounding really good now. I think you have a process that’s working.

Thanks Christian! I did have a good teacher

[GuyBoden]

Thanks Christian! I did have a good teacher

Excellent comment, but seriously, I do think that having a good teacher helps enormously, Jazz is very difficult as a solitary endeavor.

[PMB]

Wow. I don't hear many people improve as much as this.

It's the hair cut - he's the anti-Samson of jazz guitar!

Seriously though, great to hear your improvement, Cliff. In particular, you're referencing more rhythmic figures from the head in your solos and that's giving them more narrative impact.

[CliffR]

It's the hair cut - he's the anti-Samson of jazz guitar!

Seriously though, great to hear your improvement, Cliff. In particular, you're referencing more rhythmic figures from the head in your solos and that's giving them more narrative impact.

Thanks Paul! I appreciate the feedback!

[lawson-stone]

Seems I got a hair cut and new guitar since the last time I posted one of these. Been working on the timing for the head. Hopefully it's a bit better.

I'm thinking of getting a haircut too. Maybe it'll help... wait... I don't have any hair...

[CliffR]

I'm thinking of getting a haircut too. Maybe it'll help... wait... I don't have any hair...

Well, I did get a beard trim too. Maybe that's the trick?

[joe2758]

head tattoo!

[lawson-stone]

I thought I'd give this a try. I have always struggled with this classic bebop head but I haven't yet given up!