Someone says "Let's just do a blues" ....

[Bob_Ross]

what are your Go-To blues heads to play? - I personally default to Au Privave; Now's The Time or Blues in the Closet.

LOL. On a recent jam session someone said "let's play a blues" and I defaulted to the head of Au Privave ...and after the tune ended the drummer proclaims "WHOA, LOOKS LIKE WE GOT A JAZZ GUY HERE!"

:smh:

[pauln]

Drown In My Own Tears is nice. The tune is slow; the full song form about four to five minutes. The progression is "bluesologically" crafted to be self evident, each chord change sounding just like what you would expect (in spite of all the extra changes and passing chords which if fully included result in about a hundred chord song form). Also, if you have a horn section they will all know just what to do.

[AllanAllen]

Drown In My Own Tears is nice. The tune is slow; the full song form about four to five minutes. The progression is "bluesologically" crafted to be self evident, each chord change sounding just like what you would expect (in spite of all the extra changes and passing chords which if fully included result in about a hundred chord song form). Also, if you have a horn section they will all know just what to do.

Yeah.... don't do this. This isn't a blues and will end badly.

[pauln]

Yeah.... don't do this. This isn't a blues and will end badly.

I had my doubts when you revealed not liking Stella,
but claiming DIMOT isn't blues? What in the world?

[pamosmusic]

Usually people mean “of the twelve bar variety” and behind “let’s just do a blues” is usually the implication that the speaker wants to do something simple that everyone can jump in on.

I can tell you for 100% certain, if you called Drown in My Own Tears at a jazz session, you’d get raised eyebrows and a suggestion of something more people would know.

[AllanAllen]

I had my doubts when you revealed not liking Stella,
but claiming DIMOT isn't blues? What in the world?

Is Clair de Lune a blues too?

[pamosmusic]

Is Clair de Lune a blues too?

The verse of drown in my own tears is a pretty normal 16 bar blues, but that’s way more of a specialty thing. Not something all that common among jazz standards. Definitely wouldn’t expect that one to come off in a jam session.

[AllanAllen]

A blues, in this context is 12 bars and we should all know it doesn't mean a pop song where part of it is "bluesy"

I had this same discussion with Ragman years ago over St. Louis Blues. Which, even though it is bluesy and has blues in the name, it not a blues form.

[pamosmusic]

A blues, in this context is 12 bars and we should all know it doesn't mean a pop song where part of it is "bluesy"

I had this same discussion with Ragman years ago over St. Louis Blues. Which, even though it is bluesy and has blues in the name, it not a blues form.

With you on this one

In this case, the article is important …

Lets play THE blues means let’s play something like Georgia On My Mind or a blues or Drown in My Own Tears — or anything else with a blues vibe and blues gestures and a blues feel in the rhythm section.

Let’s play A blues means you’re going to play a 12-bar blues form and I don’t think Ive never been in a jazz situation where that wasn’t the case.

[pauln]

So there's not only blues police but blues lawyers, too.
Hope to never end up in blues court risking blues jail.

[pamosmusic]

So there's not only blues police but blues lawyers, too.
Hope to never end up in blues court risking blues jail.

Paul this is a pretty simple one.

There’s a common parlance for these things. Allan is referencing that common parlance. In this case, you are not.

In jazz speak “a blues” refers to a 12-bar blues.You can be weird about that on the internet or you can go to a jazz jam session, call that tune, say “it’s a blues” in D, and see what happens.

[jameslovestal]

Paul this is a pretty simple one.

There’s a common parlance for these things. Allan is referencing that common parlance. In this case, you are not.

In jazz speak “a blues” refers to a 12-bar blues.You can be weird about that on the internet or you can go to a jazz jam session, call that tune, say “it’s a blues” in D, and see what happens.

With the non-pros I jam with I wouldn't assume they all know those "common parlances". Thus, if someone said, let's play a blues, I would ask some questions, like 12 bars, 16 bars, jazz blues progression, what key.

Of course, that doesn't change what is being said here, but I do have a question: in a jam session would most pros be so vague? Since there is so much in common between the players, I would assume that in a pro jam session (or one with real experienced players), one would be specific: E.g. Let's play Blues in the Closet. I.e. a blues that one knows everyone else knows.

[AllanAllen]

I think it benefits everyone if a specific tune is called. That’s just my opinion.

I’m sure there’s some “pro” jagoffs starting tunes at a jam without telling anyone anything.

[pamosmusic]

With the non-pros I jam with I wouldn't assume they all know those "common parlances". Thus, if someone said, let's play a blues, I would ask some questions, like 12 bars, 16 bars, jazz blues progression, what key.

Noted, though I think when I was playing more jam band stuff “blues” was a lot like “jeep” where it called up something specific and you’d modify it if necessary.

16 bar blues equals Jeep Grand Cherokee or whatever.

Of course, that doesn't change what is being said here, but I do have a question: in a jam session would most pros be so vague? Since there is so much in common between the players, I would assume that in a pro jam session (or one with real experienced players), one would be specific: E.g. Let's play Blues in the Closet. I.e. a blues that one knows everyone else knows.

Yeah this happens allllllll the time.

I go to a very very casual and very beginner friendly jam session in Virginia. When the leader can’t make it, I usually host for him. When I’m there, I often get put up with some of the young folks, or maybe with a singer who isn’t a known quantity yet — the high risk situations, if you will.

If the two high school sax players can’t settle on a tune or if the older one calls one that the younger doesn’t seem comfortable I might say the following:

”ohh that’s a tricky one — how about a blues?”

On a gig recently where the bass player was the leader and it was super casual so he let me and the trumpet player call most of the tunes.

Trumpet: “what’s next?”
Me: “let’s do a blues — what do you like?”

On a gig this weekend where I was the leader. I called No. 1 Green St.

Drummer: “don’t know that one.”
Me: “it’s a blues in Bb. Shuffly kind of vibe. Stop time on the turnaround.”

This exact scenario presents itself at least once, maybe more, almost every single time I play with other musicians.

[pamosmusic]

Maybe worth noting why blueses are so common and matter of fact that they're called this way:

1. they're a massive chunk of the repertoire. No idea, but like ... a quarter of the tunes in the classic jazz catalog are blues and rhythm changes? Not sure, but I'd be surprised if it weren't more than that.

2. they're so common and relatively simple, that you can expect even a relative beginner to know them. That's really the bar at which even a chill beginner-friendly jam session is usually comfortable holding the line. A little tough love to show a kid that they really need to come with a couple blueses.

3. they're so common that everyone on the bandstand will probably sound good.

4. the tunes are so common that it's a great opportunity to play something off the beaten track without risking it going off the rails. Along the same lines, the changes are so malleable that everyone can be pretty creative and make an individual musical statement without derailing the vibe.

5. because they're so common and well-known, they tend to swing really hard, they tend to shred, the audience often is vaguely familiar with the tunes, and if they aren't, they're so familiar with the form that the way the whole thing comes off just kind of vibes familiar to them.

Bottom line.

Play more blueses.

[AllanAllen]

Yeah, what he said.

[joe2758]

If any novice is reading this, listen to Peter above.

[pamosmusic]

If any novice is reading this, listen to Peter above.

always great advice

[Tomcat]

Haven't had a generic blues called in a long time. Usually, people name the tune.

If I were to call a straightforward one, I'd play a head that Warren Nunes wrote. Nice melody. Can't recall the name of the tune.

Otherwise maybe Blues for Alice? Straight No Chaser?

Four on Six for minor.

Blues for Alice is a deadly trap for beginners or basically anyone who would think it's just a regular blues

[Christian Miller]

It took me a long time to realise how close Blues for Alice is to the standard way Bird plays a blues. Basically I had to have it pointed out by Barry Harris. And then I couldn't unhear it. It's not what generally gets taught as a bebop blues.

And the basic bird blues being more often than not (at least what he seems to be soloing on)
F6 | C7 | F6 | C-7 F7 |
Bb7 | % | F6 | A-7 Ab-7 |
G-7 | C7 | F6 | C7 |

(for example Billie's Bounce)

This is what I hear them playing on Blues for Alice.
F6 | E-7 A7 | Dm | C-7 F7 |
Bb7 | Bb-7 | A-7 | Ab-7 |
G-7 | C7 | F6 | C7 |

And not that silly nonsense with the II V's

In both cases the F6 opens up the possibility of using F major 7 as well as F6 and F7 (all of which Bird does on all blues tunes). That said, the pianists often comp with the F7 sound on the basic blues. Somehow it's all fine and the jazz police let it go.

That's a big thing actually - people can play different changes on a blues and it all works. Same thing with rhythm tunes. Adds spice IMO.

I have - of course - a video about that haha

But that's a bit downstream from 'oh I can play the F blues scale on this right?' which is how most guitar players think lol

[James W]

On 'Billie's Bounce' doesn't Bird imply B flat minor in the second bar in at least one of his choruses?

[AllanAllen]

On 'Billie's Bounce' doesn't Bird imply B flat minor in the second bar in at least one of his choruses?

Isn't the minor 3rd over a dominant the whole shebang of "bluesy"

And the basic bird blues being more often than not (at least what he seems to be soloing on)
F6 | C7 | F6 | C-7 F7 |
Bb7 | % | F6 | A-7 Ab-7 |
G-7 | C7 | F6 | C7 |

Oh, I see, I think bar 2 should be Bb7 instead of C7.

[Christian Miller]

On 'Billie's Bounce' doesn't Bird imply B flat minor in the second bar in at least one of his choruses?

Sorry yes - Billies bounce actually goes F F7 Bb7 F. Sometimes it’s Bbm to get back to F, another option is Bo7 which I think it does in the head, or at least that’s how the bass is getting there.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Christian Miller]

Isn't the minor 3rd over a dominant the whole shebang of "bluesy"



Oh, I see, I think bar 2 should be Bb7 instead of C7.

Barry said C7 in his example. As James indicated it’s not actually the case with billies bounce - my bad

Definitely Ab-7 in bar 8 on the head though (unless my ears are knackered

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mick-7]

This is what I hear them playing on Blues for Alice.
F6 | E-7 A7 | Dm | C-7 F7 |
Bb7 | Bb-7 | A-7 | Ab-7 |
G-7 | C7 | F6 | C7 |

And not that silly nonsense with the II V's

Those are the chords in the Charlie Parker Omnibook, with a couple of minor (or actually dominant) differences, i.e., Bbm7-Eb7 in the 6th measure, and Abm-Db7 in the 8th measure, plus F7 rather than F6 in bar 11.

But why is II-V "silly nonsense" acceptable in bars II & IV but not in bars VI, VIII or XII? Is there an esoteric silly nonsense rule we should know about?

Some people do seem to think that every IIm7 chord needs a V7 chaperone to keep it in line.