All the Things You Are (version II)

[guitarvegas]

I am really liking this version from this morning. I feel like I am making music now. Hope you check it out....and thanks.

[pamosmusic]

I think you really want to have a firmer handle on the melody. Here's a thing I made for a class I teach. It's not for All the Things, but for Autumn Leaves, but the focus was on the process --- how one might go about learning a melody at all. Hope it helps.

25 02 26 autumn leaves melody c.pdf - Google Drive

EDIT: this is the version of Autumn Leaves I was transcribing from.

[guitarvegas]

I think I am playing really laid back...is that right? If so, I really dig the feeling of it.

[pamosmusic]

I think I am playing really laid back...is that right? If so, I really dig the feeling of it.

You're not playing any of the correct pitches at all on the bridge. As for the A section ... pitches are there-ish.

I don't know about playing laid back, I actually think you're time is rushing a bit. I think the effect you're talking about is actually what we might call "delay" as opposed to "anticipation" or "push."

So if you have a note that lands on beat one, it's very common for jazz players to anticipate the note (play it early on the and of beat four) or delay the note (play it late on the and of beat one).

You delay the notes a lot. This is an extremely common thing for beginners to do. They hear it a bit in the phrasing of jazz musicians, but it's also convenient. When you're not confident in what comes next in the melody, it can be handy to play the note late to make sure you're getting it right. But when you do this too much, it makes it feel like everything is lopsided and hesitant. And you're doing it on most notes in almost every phrase.

If you listen closely to the way jazz musicians phrase, they do delay but they tend to anticipate the notes a lot more often. This makes the melody feel propulsive -- like it's constantly pulling the listener into the phrase, rather than leaving the listener in the middle of nowhere, wondering where the phrase is supposed to be.

I don't know if you read that document I posted, but I would highly highly highly recommend it. Are you doing those things?

You really need to know these melodies and if you take shortcuts, they won't be there. Take it from someone who has tried a lot of shortcuts.

You need to have recordings of this tune that you're listening to, and you need to listen to it so much that you can sing it right along with the recording. Sing it without the recording. Take one phrase at a time and play it with the recording. Over and over. You should be working on the first eight of All the Things for a day or two. Then the next phrase for a day or two. Then the next. Then the next. Repeat.

[guitarvegas]

You're not playing any of the correct pitches at all on the bridge. As for the A section ... pitches are there-ish.

I don't know about playing laid back, I actually think you're time is rushing a bit. I think the effect you're talking about is actually what we might call "delay" as opposed to "anticipation" or "push."

So if you have a note that lands on beat one, it's very common for jazz players to anticipate the note (play it early on the and of beat four) or delay the note (play it late on the and of beat one).

You delay the notes a lot. This is an extremely common thing for beginners to do. They hear it a bit in the phrasing of jazz musicians, but it's also convenient. When you're not confident in what comes next in the melody, it can be handy to play the note late to make sure you're getting it right. But when you do this too much, it makes it feel like everything is lopsided and hesitant. And you're doing it on most notes in almost every phrase.

If you listen closely to the way jazz musicians phrase, they do delay but they tend to anticipate the notes a lot more often. This makes the melody feel propulsive -- like it's constantly pulling the listener into the phrase, rather than leaving the listener in the middle of nowhere, wondering where the phrase is supposed to be.

I don't know if you read that document I posted, but I would highly highly highly recommend it. Are you doing those things?

You really need to know these melodies and if you take shortcuts, they won't be there. Take it from someone who has tried a lot of shortcuts.

You need to have recordings of this tune that you're listening to, and you need to listen to it so much that you can sing it right along with the recording. Sing it without the recording. Take one phrase at a time and play it with the recording. Over and over. You should be working on the first eight of All the Things for a day or two. Then the next phrase for a day or two. Then the next. Then the next. Repeat.

Thanks for the feedback. And I will check out your video.

[pamosmusic]

It's just a document. Not a video.

For whatever it's worth -- this isn't purist "you're doing it wrong" stuff. This is how you learn a melody. It's the most important part of a song. If you don't have it, you won't sound the way you want. If you don't put really considerable time into learning the melody, then you won't have it.

[guitarvegas]

Here is a "take II", from just a few moments ago.

I don't know....I do play way outside a lot in this recording, but I actually like the sound of it. But I may be nuts.

And yes, I will be starting lessons in a few weeks from now.
And this will be my last recorded video post for a while. Thanks for checking out my work.

[pamosmusic]

Here is a "take II", from just a few moments ago.

I don't know....I do play way outside a lot in this recording, but I actually like the sound of it. But I may be nuts.

And yes, I will be starting lessons in a few weeks from now.

Due respect, but you cannot and will not learn a melody in an hour.

You need to take the time to learn it. I don’t mean to be harsh, but this is fun for musicians. Why not sit down with music, listen, and learn the thing?

I tell students all the time that music is something you DO, not something you KNOW.

Knowledge is great, but no one is going to tell you something that will fix a problem. They might tell you something that will give you the tools to fix a problem, or point out where the problem is. But if you’ve been playing something one way for two weeks, and someone suggests something different, it might take you two weeks to turn that ship around. Maybe a little quicker. Maybe longer.

Take. Your. Time.

[pamosmusic]

Here is a "take II", from just a few moments ago.

I don't know....I do play way outside a lot in this recording, but I actually like the sound of it. But I may be nuts.

You have the same problems here. But again — you can’t learn a melody in an hour. You need to learn the tune — Melody and chords. You have to know what inside sounds like or outside will sound random. If you’re playing outside, where will you land? You can’t guess. If you guess, it will sound like guessing.

You can’t skip those steps. To be blunt, a teacher won’t give you something that will allow you to skip those steps. If you don’t apply what a teacher advises, then it’s good money after bad.

Ill ask again — did you read the thing I posted?

[guitarvegas]

You have the same problems here. But again — you can’t learn a melody in an hour. You need to learn the tune — Melody and chords. You have to know what inside sounds like or outside will sound random. If you’re playing outside, where will you land? You can’t guess. If you guess, it will sound like guessing.

You can’t skip those steps. To be blunt, a teacher won’t give you something that will allow you to skip those steps. If you don’t apply what a teacher advises, then it’s good money after bad.

Ill ask again — did you read the thing I posted?

Going to watch after lunch.

[pamosmusic]

Again — not saying my thing is the end all be all, but if you want to get better you have to take some advice from somewhere and be willing to slow down and change course and explore what other people do and suggest

[guitarvegas]

Again — not saying my thing is the end all be all, but if you want to get better you have to take some advice from somewhere and be willing to slow down and change course and explore what other people do and suggest

Thanks so much!

[guitarvegas]

You have the same problems here. But again — you can’t learn a melody in an hour. You need to learn the tune — Melody and chords. You have to know what inside sounds like or outside will sound random. If you’re playing outside, where will you land? You can’t guess. If you guess, it will sound like guessing.

You can’t skip those steps. To be blunt, a teacher won’t give you something that will allow you to skip those steps. If you don’t apply what a teacher advises, then it’s good money after bad.

Ill ask again — did you read the thing I posted?

I just read through all of it. Very valid points, all of them. I couldn't read the music, however.

[wintermoon]

attya isn't a tune I'd pick to teach a beginner, especially one that doesn't know music.
Constantly re recording sound clips isn't the answer if you have no musical knowledge to draw from and apply. Frankly they all sound the same, w all due respect almost all of it is wrong notes and chords, especially after the melody.
How can someone play if they don't know the first thing about music, chords etc? This isn't meant as a personal attack, op seems like a nice enough person and we have pm'd, but it is stone cold reality.
A beginner needs to learn music, not just turn on a recording device and flail away aimlessly not knowing what they're doing.
Until the op starts taking advice from experienced players and gets serious about learning music nothing will change.
If this sounds like a broken record, well....
Hopefully start the lessons and apply yourself to learning music, that's the only way progress will be made.

[guitarvegas]

No, you guys are all right. I am a sucky jazz wannabe right now. I know it.

Not to get to far into this, but I do look forward to structured lessons (designed for me), 1 per month....12 per year. I know that each month I will be given specific material to work on and learn, and that one lesson per month will be more than enough to take me thru 30 days. I will get better....this I do know.

And I will leave with saying that the reason I want to take it further, is because I hear potential within myself. I think I could possibly actually be really good one day. It's just gonna be time. One month at a time...and in a year lets look back and see where I am at then. I will give it a full year.....if nothing improves, then I know I am stuck and unable to learn. If I make good progress, then I will continue on as much as I need to. But I am going to try.

[pamosmusic]

No, you guys are all right. I am a sucky jazz wannabe right now. I know it.

dude cut this shit out.

No one has said you suck and no one thinks you can't do this.

What people are saying (here and in other threads) is that you need to slow down and do the simple things that everyone who has ever played All the Things even half decently has spent time doing. You keep skipping those things. You don't suck; you just need to listen to the advice people are giving you.

Again -- a good teacher will not be able to help you with that. They will be able to put information in front of you, but they won't be able to compel you to follow their advice.

And the advice you've gotten here ...

From me: get a lead sheet, pick three recordings you like, make sure one is a vocal, listen to them over and over, go phrase by phrase and learn the melody, use the vocal version to copy phrasing.

Wintermoon: focus on fundamentals, learn what notes are in a chord, learn why the chords do what they're doing.

That is advice that every teacher under the sun is going to give you. You can take it now, or you can take it later, but it won't change.

[pamosmusic]

It's just gonna be time. One month at a time...and in a year lets look back and see where I am at then.

And a comment on this.

Time is just time. If you're doing the same things, then time won't change anything.

Do new things, and you'll improve much more quickly than you think. But it's not just going to be time. It's going to be effort and openness to the advice of others. All the time in the world won't substitute for those things.

[guitarvegas]

Anyway, I got my three favorites. Jim Hall, Grant Green, and Natalie Cole's version of ATTYA.

I listen to them. Especially Jim's versions. I can learn that melody from Natalie, even if she is singing in a different key.