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Sounds better than feeding the troll. There's countless other old threads with material worth revisiting, if just to read and learn some new perspective on rhythm. There's newer threads around these parts as well. I've seen Pamos and Allan say interesting things as well as many others.
Originally Posted by brent.h
Just saying, we finally have a rhythm topic at JGF. That's an opportunity to share new learning on a topic that is just beginning to bloom outside of the drummer's club. Bassists are also MASTERS at discussing the whole concept of how rhythm organizes raw material (harmony, melody, technique).
The website is called JAZZGUITAR.be ferchrissake's! Do we want facebook to be the go to for innovative discussion around jazz guitar, or can we try better here at JAZZGUITAR.be? Don't feed the troll with thread drift, name-calling arguments, and other cheeky bullshit. I broke my silence rule because I was sick of seeing the same threads around these parts--not because people were adding anything new to deepen the dialogue on these popular threads, but because of the vapid antics I mentioned earlier.
I'm out because I don't want to play into my own bad habits--posting when I should be practicing and playing. When I get bored, I want to open up jazzguitar.be and learn something new from someone who may or may not have a youtube channel I can explore.
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07-04-2025 02:01 PM
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Ever since I started putting Opanije in my trad jazz playing, I felt as a lot more funky and enjoy it a lot more, and also I get gigs doing it. Tenor banjo en route. Wish me luck!
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The melody of Love Me or Leave Me (1929) features these Brazilian rhythms.
The A section melody is quite similar to the second half/measure of the 'opanije' rhythm.
The B section melody features the 'ilu' rhythm exactly.
Last edited by brent.h; 08-25-2025 at 11:55 AM.
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Love that you are keeping this thread alive, @brent.h
Maybe that will attract more drummers and percussionists to the forum to set us straight on rhythm.
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These rhythms are so so so important.
While on the bandstand in my recent jams, I kept telling myself just before I started soloing, "How would Louis Armstrong superimpose the Opanije rhythm here?" I would just try my best to emulate him, and my solos sounded more dance-y. It's truly game-changing, and I'm preferring to solo this way instead of thinking "bop, barry harris, lines, changes, etc." Just focus on the rhythms man! The other jammers on/off stage seemed to enjoy them too. Plus it made it so so clear and easy for drummers to interact with me.
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So is this also where the history of the "swing" in (properly interpreted) French baroque music can be found?
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If these influences are to be found I’d expect them to show up in dances like the Canarios and early Chaconne, which are both triple time with heavy use of hemiola and of possibly non European origin. There is an influence of the tresillo in baroque syncopations which relates to Opanije and Ilu. Originally Posted by RJVB
I think the link between note inégales might be speculative. Early jazz was pretty straight and modern swing is more a sense of pocket than a pronounced inequality in the eighth notes.
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The melody of Some of These Days (1910) contains a variation of the 'ilu' rhythm.
1:40 - "You'll miss your lit-tle"
1:43 - "Yes some of these days"
Last edited by brent.h; 09-03-2025 at 12:41 PM.
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Ah yeah I’ll work an arrangement of that up on Banjo
It was really the Ketu stuff that helped me to hear early jazz as more funky and less square. The Ilu and Opanije rhythms are a lot of my banjo playing (because I’m certainly not doing anything fancy) but the band seems to feel it, and I’m getting good feedback
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opanije and ilu groove so ridiculously hard Originally Posted by Christian Miller
this older stuff is definitely not corny... everybody getting into jazz needs to learn these grooves (or similar/older ones) first
one groove i really really love but isn't played all that much is the habanera groove, the thing that jelly rolly morton calls the spanish tinge.. there's an interview of him demonstrating a tune with this groove and WOW....
you know, i remember you mentioning in one of your rhythm videos how the bembe rhythm helps with medium swing time feel.
well i have this super uneducated hunch that playing the habanera/spanish tinge might be a good training/teaching tool for learning how to swing or place the upbeat.. i know habaneras are written/felt as 2/4, but my ears hear them as 4/4 (beats 1, 2&, 3, 4)... so to me, 75% of the rhythm is on the downbeat, which helps keep the pulse and we can learn how to place that one upbeat in just the right spot to make things groove. perhaps a straighter upbeat leans more the traditional habanera and swingier upbeat feels a bit more like jazz?
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Sounds about right to me. habanera is one note away from Tresillo, which is Charleston Originally Posted by brent.h
Incidentally I would add that a lot of jazz post bop still conforms to Opanije. It’s just that you have more of the triple time thing against it, as jazz goes a bit more tripletty at this point compared to early on.
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The melody of On The Sunny Side Of The Street (1930) features the 'ilu' rhythm.
0:50 - "sunny side of the"
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The A section melody of Dizzy Atmosphere features the skeleton of the opanije rhythm. (Beats 1, 3, 1, 2&)
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