The history of jazz swing can be found in ketu candomble rhythms

[Christian Miller]

Ever since I started putting Opanije in my trad jazz playing, I felt as a lot more funky and enjoy it a lot more, and also I get gigs doing it. Tenor banjo en route. Wish me luck!

[PickingMyEars]

Love that you are keeping this thread alive, @brent.h

Maybe that will attract more drummers and percussionists to the forum to set us straight on rhythm.

[RJVB]

So is this also where the history of the "swing" in (properly interpreted) French baroque music can be found?

[Christian Miller]

So is this also where the history of the "swing" in (properly interpreted) French baroque music can be found?

If these influences are to be found I’d expect them to show up in dances like the Canarios and early Chaconne, which are both triple time with heavy use of hemiola and of possibly non European origin. There is an influence of the tresillo in baroque syncopations which relates to Opanije and Ilu.

I think the link between note inégales might be speculative. Early jazz was pretty straight and modern swing is more a sense of pocket than a pronounced inequality in the eighth notes.


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[Christian Miller]

Ah yeah I’ll work an arrangement of that up on Banjo

It was really the Ketu stuff that helped me to hear early jazz as more funky and less square. The Ilu and Opanije rhythms are a lot of my banjo playing (because I’m certainly not doing anything fancy) but the band seems to feel it, and I’m getting good feedback


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[Christian Miller]

opanije and ilu groove so ridiculously hard

this older stuff is definitely not corny... everybody getting into jazz needs to learn these grooves (or similar/older ones) first

one groove i really really love but isn't played all that much is the habanera groove, the thing that jelly rolly morton calls the spanish tinge.. there's an interview of him demonstrating a tune with this groove and WOW....

you know, i remember you mentioning in one of your rhythm videos how the bembe rhythm helps with medium swing time feel.

well i have this super uneducated hunch that playing the habanera/spanish tinge might be a good training/teaching tool for learning how to swing or place the upbeat.. i know habaneras are written/felt as 2/4, but my ears hear them as 4/4 (beats 1, 2&, 3, 4)... so to me, 75% of the rhythm is on the downbeat, which helps keep the pulse and we can learn how to place that one upbeat in just the right spot to make things groove. perhaps a straighter upbeat leans more the traditional habanera and swingier upbeat feels a bit more like jazz?

Sounds about right to me. habanera is one note away from Tresillo, which is Charleston

Incidentally I would add that a lot of jazz post bop still conforms to Opanije. It’s just that you have more of the triple time thing against it, as jazz goes a bit more tripletty at this point compared to early on.


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