Jazz Articulation on guitar (rhythms, phrasing, et al)

[MarkRhodes]

This subject comes up often and I thought it might be helpful to have a clearing house for ideas (advice,
techniques) about making a guitar sound jazzy.

Slurring, phrasing, melodic rhythms, Mike Moreno videos, swing-feel, the whole shmear. (What am I leaving out?)

Please don't hesitate to mention something--or post a video---here because it has been mentioned elsewhere.

[TH]

Two things that are keeping me honest about sound and feel:
Keeping the instrument in my hands more than the distractions.
A lot of time singing lines, for rhythm, for content, for phrasing.

Done mercilessly, this keeps me moving forward and hopefully keeps what I'm doing safely untangled with what I can let myself believe I should be doing.

When I'm playing, there's affirmation. The more I play, the more I hear.

That's one glimpse of the journey anyway.
David

[destinytot]

Sean Levitt - via El Duderino ("if you're not into the whole brevity thing"), courtesy of Creedence. Worth a read - and, of course, a listen. The part about Sean's at the very end:
John Fogerty | The Katz Tapes

[Doublea A]

This subject comes up often and I thought it might be helpful to have a clearing house for ideas (advice,
techniques) about making a guitar sound jazzy.

Slurring, phrasing, melodic rhythms, Mike Moreno videos, swing-feel, the whole shmear. (What am I leaving out?)

Please don't hesitate to mention something--or post a video---here because it has been mentioned elsewhere.

I think that listening to jazz and imitating what you are hearing is important. It is like learning a language. Learning scales and such are just the vocabulary. A saxophonist friend said to me, we are all speaking the same language, it's just that some people speak more eloquently.


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[TOMMO]

I think that listening to jazz and imitating what you are hearing is important. It is like learning a language. Learning scales and such are just the vocabulary. A saxophonist friend said to me, we are all speaking the same language, it's just that some people speak more eloquently.

True that. When I was in my teens trying to learn blues guitar - the classic old school blues: B.B., Albert, Freddy, Hubert and so on - I played along with the albums. I couldn't duplicate the phrases, lines and licks because I didn't know which notes to hit yet let alone where to find and best finger them but what I picked up intuitively was the phrasing, rhythm, where to not play etc.

[MarkRhodes]

Horns have it all over archtop guitars here. Their dynamic range is greater and because they are sounded by breath rather than fingers, it is (or so it seems to me, an outsider) easier to give a vocal-quality to one's lines.

[matt.guitarteacher]

Horns have it all over archtop guitars here. Their dynamic range is greater and because they are sounded by breath rather than fingers, it is (or so it seems to me, an outsider) easier to give a vocal-quality to one's lines.

Agreed. This is where Wes and the number of "levels" he had in terms of articulation (octaves and chords ) is still the standard.

In terms of crescendo/decrescendo, we're in the same boat with pianists/drummers, but we also have the pluses of those, if we know how to use them: a VERY kinesthetic reference to rhythm and subdivision of beat. Alternate hands on piano or drums; pick direction or right hand fingers on guitar. Emulating horns is good exercise, but ultimately it's an illusion. Drums/piano give a lot clues into developing the illusion of crescendo/legato etc.

I think Wes could've played anything at the absolute top level, but a large part of his genius was in his development of very unique articulations, specifically idiomatic to guitar.

[Gabor]

Here is what is works for me, doing since 2 years and now sometimes... maybe... I would like to think... there are some barely noticable results. (Before that, I had no concept about how to improve)

I know it is a bit general: listen your play. I do not mean record then replay. That would be a cruel thing :-). I mean always listen while you play, make listening the sound what you produce a very deep habit. If you are not satisfied, slow down. (again a general "saying nothing") But I mean it, really.

Some examples:

- When I practice scales, never, never do it unplugged. I always plug my guitar to my amp, to hear the sound quality what my pick, left/right hand produces, including the not wanted noises and bad sounding notes. The goal is never the speed, instead sounding good.

- When I practice Donna Lee, say I could play it at max speed 200 bpm (not too fast I know). I play it one or twice at that tempo, but I play it at 150 bpm ten times. This tempo allows me to really enjoy, I have time to listen and I have time to make fun with very little phrasing nuances, experiment new little tricks just for fun. All those things will not happen if I practice in my full speed.

Hopefully one year later in 2018 my max speed will be 220 and I can practice my phrasing, rhythm with joy at 170 bpm.

[Doublea A]

Horns have it all over archtop guitars here. Their dynamic range is greater and because they are sounded by breath rather than fingers, it is (or so it seems to me, an outsider) easier to give a vocal-quality to one's lines.

Yes. Our challenge is to try to sound like a horn like is trying to sound like a voice.

[MarkRhodes]

Yes. Our challenge is to try to sound like a horn like is trying to sound like a voice.

Sometimes I think we should stop trying to sound like horns. Lots of horns around. No shortage of horns. Strings are lovely things. Get string-y, I say!

[Richard Luther]

1. Good time
2. Good tone
3. Good ideas
4. Good notes.

In that order.

On time: metronome, drum genius, biab, another player(s). Singing solos by masters. Improvised sung solos from what's in your head. Record. Analyze. Rinse and repeat. Listening to tons of jazz daily.

Good tone: 99% of tone is in your hands. Imagine first the guitar is a percussive instrument. A drum set played with your fingers that also happens to produce notes secondarily.

Tap second line beats with your left hand fingers. Attach notes to it. A drum solo with notes.

Imagine the sound of the note is released about an inch beneath the fretboard. Push down deep emotionally through the wood to release the sound.

Good ideas: great soloists are storytellers. They lead listeners. They say something, say it again, and again a little differently, and then say something new.

They improvise in 2 bar, 4 bar, and 8 bar statements depending on tempo.

Simple stuff. Lots of space. The notes frame the space where the music is created.

It's like a portrait artist drawing highlights of a face. He can't draw light so instead he draws shadows. It's the dark that brings out the light. And, it's the notes that frame the space.

Jazz is created by what you don't play. Which is why endless eighth note solos dull the listeners ear. Law of diminishing returns.

Good notes: Since the majority of modern jazz study concentrates first on what I consider the least of a musicians concern (what notes to play) I'll end here. Plenty of resources on the subject.


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[MarkRhodes]

Back to horns. What is the difference (in sound, to the non-horn playing listener) between a tongued note and one that is not tongued?

I've seen articulation exercises for horn players that say, for example, 'tongue every other note, on the upbeat,' or 'tongue every fourth note'. If one played those exercises on the guitar, what would one be doing on those beats?

[matt.guitarteacher]

All legato techniques of guitar: hammer on, pull off, slides etc.

That's the thing : you have to do something ACTIVE on a horn to NOT play legato. You simply stop that thing, and you have legato. You can basically play legato between any two given pitches.

On guitar, you have to do something active basically to PLAY legato. And it's not possible between any two given pitches in any fretboard position. I guess you could say that the guitar equivalent to NOT tonguing individual notes is to simply not PICK with the right hand , but it's not the same thing really at all.

[destinytot]

Back to horns. What is the difference (in sound, to the non-horn playing listener) between a tongued note and one that is not tongued?

I've seen articulation exercises for horn players that say, for example, 'tongue every other note, on the upbeat,' or 'tongue every fourth note'. If one played those exercises on the guitar, what would one be doing on those beats?

I play by ear and don't practise to build or maintain embouchure. I don't usually inflict my poor trumpet playing on anyone - but I made this to post in a recent practical standards.

I always tongue every note*, saying 'doo-dle' (something I saw on a Clark Terry workshop video). Personally, (ideally) I'd pick every note on guitar, too.

[Doublea A]

Sometimes I think we should stop trying to sound like horns. Lots of horns around. No shortage of horns. Strings are lovely things. Get string-y, I say!

Okay. Yes, I agree


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[Doublea A]

1. Good time
2. Good tone
3. Good ideas
4. Good notes.

In that order.

On time: metronome, drum genius, biab, another player(s). Singing solos by masters. Improvised sung solos from what's in your head. Record. Analyze. Rinse and repeat. Listening to tons of jazz daily.

Good tone: 99% of tone is in your hands. Imagine first the guitar is a percussive instrument. A drum set played with your fingers that also happens to produce notes secondarily.

Tap second line beats with your left hand fingers. Attach notes to it. A drum solo with notes.

Imagine the sound of the note is released about an inch beneath the
fretboard. Push down deep emotionally through the wood to release the sound.

Good ideas: great soloists are storytellers. They lead listeners. They say something, say it again, and again a little differently, and then say something new.

They improvise in 2 bar, 4 bar, and 8 bar statements depending on tempo.

Simple stuff. Lots of space. The notes frame the space where the music is created.

It's like a portrait artist drawing highlights of a face. He can't draw light so instead he draws shadows. It's the dark that brings out the light. And, it's the notes that frame the space.

Jazz is created by what you don't play. Which is why endless eighth note solos dull the listeners ear. Law of diminishing returns.

Good notes: Since the majority of modern jazz study concentrates first on what I consider the least of a musicians concern (what notes to play) I'll end here. Plenty of resources on the subject.


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In that order ?

My order would be

1. Good notes
2. Good tone
3. Good time
4. Good ideas


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[matt.guitarteacher]

I don't think you have to choose between the two necessarily, but I'd say good time trumps good notes on the priority list any day.

Just my opinion.

[MarkRhodes]

In one of Jamey Aebersold's books (he plays sax, bass, and piano) he says that sound comes first. Second, articulation. Given his reputation as a chord-scale guy, you'd think he would place a higher emphasis on notes.

Questions: are we counting rhythm (or melodic rhythms or jazz rhythms) as part of articulation?

[Doublea A]

I don't think you have to choose between the two necessarily, but I'd say good time trumps good notes on the priority list any day.

Just my opinion.

So is it ?

1. Good time

2. Good notes

3. Good tone

4. Good ideas


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[Doublea A]

In one of Jamey Aebersold's books (he plays sax, bass, and piano) he says that sound comes first. Second, articulation. Given his reputation as a chord-scale guy, you'd think he would place a higher emphasis on notes.

Questions: are we counting rhythm (or melodic rhythms or jazz rhythms) as part of articulation?

I think we are counting Rhythm as part of articulation


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[pauln]

Ideas, notes, time, and tone are not all the same kinds of things... tone and time quality are relatively fixed because they improve slowly, are more intrinsic; one with poor tone or poor time can't just decide to play the next song with good tone and good time.

Good notes and good ideas look like two sides of the coin, both are comprised of each other and both are subject to quick change decisions up to the capacity of the guitarist. The next song can be played with new or different good ideas of good notes.

[christianm77]

JIMMY RANEY!!!

I have spoken.

[christianm77]

Sometimes I think we should stop trying to sound like horns. Lots of horns around. No shortage of horns. Strings are lovely things. Get string-y, I say!

Allan said he only did his thing cos his family couldn't afford a sax.

But yeah, I get you. Whose the master of jazz guitar phrasing from the guitar POV?

[PMB]

For me, Romain Pilon is hard to beat in the articulation stakes. Great control of legato and dynamics with a faultless time feel. I chanced across Romain in a small Paris bar about five years ago where he and his fantastic trio blew me away. Check out this clip posted earlier today with that same trio and a guest pianist. The solo starts at 5'55" and the final couple of choruses from 8'55'' are particularly fine. Romain's right hand is amazingly efficient, as graceful and precise as a master calligrapher!:

[Richard Luther]

Good notes are last as evidenced by a simple minor pentatonic scale turned into a masterpiece.

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