Practicing phrasing at home - Donna Lee, Cherokee

**aleksandar** · 02-01-2016, 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by sgcim

Yeah, I thought it was the LSD I take every morning with my coffee that made it sound like he was speaking another language, but i guess he was speaking Bulgarian!

I had a Bulgarian student once, he could sweep pick shred like a maniac. He really grossed me out when he told me the way he cut up chickens in gory detail in Bulgaria.

Aleksanar- Could you give us the gist of what he was saying on that video about alternate picking?

I thought he was a kid, but I went to his website and found out he's 42.
The guy's a bitch, I don't know why he's asking us for advice; it should be the other way around!

In essence, he is saying that alternate picking gives you the freedom to play flowingly, for the lack of better words, allowing you to accentuate where you want to accentuate, without worrying about crossing strings or whatsoever, but it's biggest flaw is that a proper alternate picking technique is hard to achieve. So he explains the failed attempts of playing from the wrist and why it failed, allowing him to play convincingly fast and hard picking, but that he couldn't play soft and fast. So he came up with this motion which is a combination of movement from the elbow and movement from the wrist. He explains the movement of the hand like this: like when your hand is wet and you want to shake the water off, that kind of movement, only adjusted in its range as necessary to pick the strings . And then it's the standard advice you'd get from every good guitar player: your hand should be relaxed and loose. If you feel pain or fatigue, you are doing it wrong and there is no point to continue like that.

Before watching this video, I always tried to play from the wrist, because that's how I was told to. It didn't worked for me, partly because I am left handed and I don't have as much control over my right hand. I was always having problems when crossing strings. But with this method it is much easier, my hand is kind of dancing around the strings, small movements, but it helps me a lot to execute it correct, and now I don't have to try to get by with pulls and hammer-ons to mask my bad picking technique.

**55bar** · 02-01-2016, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by aleksandar

In essence, he is saying that alternate picking gives you the freedom to play flowingly, for the lack of better words, allowing you to accentuate where you want to accentuate, without worrying about crossing strings or whatsoever, but it's biggest flaw is that a proper alternate picking technique is hard to achieve. So he explains the failed attempts of playing from the wrist and why it failed, allowing him to play convincingly fast and hard picking, but that he couldn't play soft and fast. So he came up with this motion which is a combination of movement from the elbow and movement from the wrist. He explains the movement of the hand like this: like when your hand is wet and you want to shake the water off, that kind of movement, only adjusted in its range as necessary to pick the strings . And then it's the standard advice you'd get from every good guitar player: your hand should be relaxed and loose. If you feel pain or fatigue, you are doing it wrong and there is no point to continue like that.

Before watching this video, I always tried to play from the wrist, because that's how I was told to. It didn't worked for me, partly because I am left handed and I don't have as much control over my right hand. I was always having problems when crossing strings. But with this method it is much easier, my hand is kind of dancing around the strings, small movements, but it helps me a lot to execute it correct, and now I don't have to try to get by with pulls and hammer-ons to mask my bad picking technique.

Legend! Thanks for translating.

**sgcim** · 02-01-2016, 08:09 PM

Originally Posted by aleksandar

In essence, he is saying that alternate picking gives you the freedom to play flowingly, for the lack of better words, allowing you to accentuate where you want to accentuate, without worrying about crossing strings or whatsoever, but it's biggest flaw is that a proper alternate picking technique is hard to achieve. So he explains the failed attempts of playing from the wrist and why it failed, allowing him to play convincingly fast and hard picking, but that he couldn't play soft and fast. So he came up with this motion which is a combination of movement from the elbow and movement from the wrist. He explains the movement of the hand like this: like when your hand is wet and you want to shake the water off, that kind of movement, only adjusted in its range as necessary to pick the strings . And then it's the standard advice you'd get from every good guitar player: your hand should be relaxed and loose. If you feel pain or fatigue, you are doing it wrong and there is no point to continue like that.

Before watching this video, I always tried to play from the wrist, because that's how I was told to. It didn't worked for me, partly because I am left handed and I don't have as much control over my right hand. I was always having problems when crossing strings. But with this method it is much easier, my hand is kind of dancing around the strings, small movements, but it helps me a lot to execute it correct, and now I don't have to try to get by with pulls and hammer-ons to mask my bad picking technique.

Wow, that's more or less how I play; it's nice to know I've gotten something right. There are many ways to avoid pain and fatigue when you play like this, which becomes a problem at tempos like 336bpm and above.

Thanks for the translation and summary Aleksandar!

**55bar** · 02-03-2016, 08:08 AM

Originally Posted by kolio_k

Thanks for all your feedback! I really appreciate you taking the time to comment! Cheers!

btw. Backing track is from Ireal Pro

Did you get someone to record trumpet or do you play this too?

**Toddep** · 02-03-2016, 08:44 AM

Great playing

**teleboli** · 02-16-2016, 05:53 PM

I just made a small bonfire in the backyard with my guitars. Not much of a jazz player?

**kolio_k** · 03-29-2016, 12:00 PM

Thanks a lot, I am glad if the video was helpful in some way! I don't think its all that good though, but its an old one, hopefully I could do a bit better now :-)

**kolio_k** · 03-29-2016, 12:03 PM

Thank you all for listening and commenting! (bow)

**pingu** · 03-29-2016, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by teleboli

I just made a small bonfire in the backyard with my guitars. Not much of a jazz player?

Yeah I wish I was not much of a jazz player like that !

sh1t ....... got to work on my picking .... bye !

**sunnysideup** · 03-29-2016, 10:20 PM

Hey kolio...great playing

if you consider yourself to be "not much of a jazz player", what sort of music would you say you are quite good at;-)

re breathing or not breathing; it depends on what sort of music you want to make - there is no need to 'breathe" if you're aiming at a certain kind of hard bop / post bop sound (so some sax players developed circular breathing tehniques). Few people have the virtuosity to play that way and still make it musical.

If you're not planning on making jazz your main interest, then I'd say your musicality and technique are already way ahead of what you need. If you want to become a full-time jazz player, I would seriously suggest you move to New York City, maybe on a music scholarship, where a player of your ability will get into some serious gigs quickly.

**kolio_k** · 03-30-2016, 12:28 PM

Thank you very much! I am trying to play a bit of everything (mostly jazz lately in dead),not to get deep in anything in particular. I realize, that's not the best way to get really good in something though! I would like to move to NY, at least for a while, just to be able to listen (and maybe jam now and than with) some heavy guys, but I am afraid I cant afford it really :-)

**kolio_k** · 06-02-2016, 10:34 AM

keep on practicing my phrasing

**55bar** · 06-02-2016, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by kolio_k

keep on practicing my phrasing

Great phrasing.

Kolio, can you elaborate more on your right hand practice, I've been trying to work on the relaxed sort or "water wringing from the hand" almost gentle strumming approach to picking.

Is there any part of your hand touching the strings?

Do you find when you close your fist the motion is harder?

Best

55

**kolio_k** · 06-02-2016, 12:04 PM

Thanks a lot!

I think you could call me on Skype once and could try to explain you what I am doing, it would be easier probably instead me trying to write about it ;-). The back on my hand is always touching the strings, but I am not pressing it against, just touching. I mostly play with my fist closed, because I like the sound better and it feels more natural, because of how I hold the pick.

**55bar** · 06-02-2016, 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by kolio_k

Thanks a lot!

I think you could call me on Skype once and could try to explain you what I am doing, it would be easier probably instead me trying to write about it ;-). The back on my hand is always touching the strings, but I am not pressing it against, just touching. I mostly play with my fist closed, because I like the sound better and it feels more natural, because of how I hold the pick.

Thanks man,

Maybe we can set up a chat on Skype next week. PM me your Skype name if you like.

Thanks for your reply

55

**kolio_k** · 05-04-2017, 01:52 PM

Sorry for the quality, recorded with Iphone 4 :-)

**55bar** · 05-04-2017, 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by kolio_k

Sorry for the quality, recorded with Iphone 4 :-)

Awesome playing as usual, could you give us some guidance as to how you approach the metheny esque double time stuff towards the end of the solo? Maybe a tutorial?

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**kolio_k** · 05-08-2017, 07:59 AM

Thanks a lot! Yes I could try maybe, although I am not sure how exactly. But it has to do with playing chord notes on the beat and feeling the gabs with chromatic or diatonic approaches! The Metheny esque stuff is just ascending or descending lick I play, often on autopilot (very hard to get rid of)

**55bar** · 05-13-2017, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by kolio_k

Thanks a lot! Yes I could try maybe, although I am not sure how exactly. But it has to do with playing chord notes on the beat and feeling the gabs with chromatic or diatonic approaches! The Metheny esque stuff is just ascending or descending lick I play, often on autopilot (very hard to get rid of)

Could you show us the lick and maybe how you use variations on it?

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