Double timing

[Strat-itis]

I'm coming up on a year of playing vibraphone. It's going well and I can play some spicy med up blueses, I have a general aptitude on the instrument, and it makes my combo tunes sound better. However I realized something's bothering me with my med tunes and ballads to some extent, where I feel like it doesn't land as well as I think I can do even tho I'm new at the instrument. It occurred to me that I reached the non-negotiable end boss: I have to double time.

Listening to Milt who is my model for how I want to play, he always double times with 16th notes to achieve appropriate animation on med tunes. On ballads he double times the double time with 32nd notes. He always does this. So I'm basically viewing it as the correct approach and I'm focusing on it until I get it down to make my med tunes and ballads sound appropriate. I'm currently getting hosed lol but I'll get it.

General double time input is welcomed.

[brent.h]

Lol I struggle with them when I hit 100-110 bpm. At slower tempos they're a bit more manageable.

When I do try playing them on the spot, I'm literally just watching my fingers go places and the challenge for me is to stop at the correct time/beat. If I use my pre-written lines, I find that I can stop them at the right places. My lines usually start and end on a downbeat. They are about 2 beats long. E.g. start on the downbeat of 1, and the last note is on the downbeat of 3. Something like that.

My double-time stuff is never as clean as I like. I don't have the facility yet. But I feel I'm getting closer every month/year.

I do cheat when I can't execute DT. I play a stream of triplets to fake it. I feel 8th-note triplets 'rush' the standard 8th-note - you're trying to fit 12 notes into a bar instead of 8. To my ears, it sounds like there's that 'illusion of speed'. (I kinda learnt this after transcribing Frankie Trumbauer.) They're easier to play than 16ths, which is nice.

Edit: Ok don't mind me I'm just nerding out. Here's some of that triplet playing that influenced me a lot:

2:04 to 2:08

0:56 to 0:58

0:40 to 0:44 This line hammered home the lesson

[Jonah]

I think double-time is more often with the instruments with more sharp percussive attack and then 'dying sound'... as the sound fades away they begin to fill in. Not always of course but I think it is intuitively natural.

Besides, vibraphone is a percussive instrument so the metric/rhythmic variations are also natural for it.

Where a trumpet player can just sit on one long note and add expression where needed, fade away then come back etc., on vibraphone you will have to do tremolo or some ornamentation.

I guess guitar (especially electric) and piano are somewhere in between... so besides 'driving'/speed up effect I think it can be connected with the nature of the instrument too

[Strat-itis]

^ You're right. It's much easier for the horns to use inflection to sound good at the medium tempo. For instruments with a quick attack and decay like vibraphone or organ, it becomes essential to double time. Guitar and piano are a mix like you said.

Lol I struggle with them when I hit 100-110 bpm. At slower tempos they're a bit more manageable.

Yep haha. Milt doesn't default to the main tempo until about 150 lol. So on 60-75bpm he runs 32nd notes and on meds up to around 120-140 he runs 16th notes.

When I do try playing them on the spot, I'm literally just watching my fingers go places and the challenge for me is to stop at the correct time/beat. If I use my pre-written lines, I find that I can stop them at the right places. My lines usually start and end on a downbeat. They are about 2 beats long. E.g. start on the downbeat of 1, and the last note is on the downbeat of 3. Something like that. My double-time stuff is never as clean as I like. I don't have the facility yet. But I feel I'm getting closer every month/year.

Same with me. I work out cells and templates. I think a great one to make the inflection sound good is in groups of 4 beats, 4 16th notes per beat:

Beat 1: motif 1
Beat 2: motif 1 prime
Beat 3: motif response
Beat 4: Response prime

So play a cell, then a continuation or slight variation on it, the response, the response continuation. It's not the only thing to do but it helps with phrasing because it keeps it square.

I do cheat when I can't execute DT. I play a stream of triplets to fake it. I feel 8th-note triplets 'rush' the standard 8th-note - you're trying to fit 12 notes into a bar instead of 8. To my ears, it sounds like there's that 'illusion of speed'. (I kinda learnt this after transcribing Frankie Trumbauer.) They're easier to play than 16ths, which is nice.

Edit: Ok don't mind me I'm just nerding out. Here's some of that triplet playing that influenced me a lot:

2:04 to 2:08

0:56 to 0:58

Oh I definitely hear myself doing streams of triplets on playback when I attempt double time. I thought that was lame but that's cool that you have examples of them in the wild. I'll check out how to make them sound good.

0:40 to 0:44 This line hammered home the lesson

That's a good solo. Often the double timing will just be a deeper layer of subdivision while still being lush and not just a stream of 16th notes.

[kosopag]

Good observation. Double time can really give momentum to medium tempos. But what makes Milt stand out is also the way he alternates between normal tempo and double time to create contrast. It can be interesting to work on both rather than constantly staying in double time.

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