How To Improve Phrasing/Feel?

[jamiehenderson1993]

...

[JazzPadd]

It’s a great question and I’m sure there’ll be a variety of answers.

I found that trying to align one’s hands with breathing can help to arrive at some natural phrasing.

Wishing you all the best!

[Christian Miller]

I recently posted a thread asking for examples of fanstastic Blues playing and was completely thrilled by the response - I have so much listening to do.

What it did make me realise is that despite having a decent theory knowledge of the 'right' things to play, as well as a good vocabulary of 'licks/lines' I can use over the various sections of the form. I just find that my playing still sounds like, well, s**t ! - just stiff/plastic and frankly inauthentic.

How do you improve your phrasing / feel? I appreciate this is really an almost impossible question to answer but any advice appreciated.

Is it just a case of shedding lines until they sound smooth, and importantly that you believe them, or am I missing something?

Apologies if this is a total beginner question.

It may help to try and sing other people’s stuff if you like their phrasing and then try to play it yourself.

Avoid learning music from music notation (including tab) for a while. Use it if you just, but start with the sound.

Notation is digital, hearing and singing is analogue.

Phrasing is analogue and only imperfectly represented in notation at best. A good reader reads beyond the notes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[pamosmusic]

It’s a great question and I’m sure there’ll be a variety of answers.

I found that trying to align one’s hands with breathing can help to arrive at some natural phrasing.

Wishing you all the best!

I love to sing while I play and think it helps a lot. Other people will disagree vociferously and say that people who do that are really annoying.

I am correct, course.

The tricky bit is that those other people are also correct.

[BreckerFan]

+1 singing what you're playing. And singing what other people play.

Also, cliched but, transcribe. And then play what you transcribed along with the record and try to get it as close as you can.

[emanresu]

Copying stuff, playing scales or arps = saying what you see.

Try to do more than that.

[Strat-itis]

How do you improve your phrasing / feel? I appreciate this is really an almost impossible question to answer but any advice appreciated.

It is not impossible at all. Learn a solo you like. Then practice making the phrasing and feel like that. Compose your own solo that you're happy with. This will develop your playing more towards that.

[AllanAllen]

This will be a lifelong struggle with guitar. We can endlessly noodle 8th notes after relatively short time on the instrument. But sax and trumpet players have to stop and breathe.

Last night I watched this video, well half of it, and saw improvement at today’s gig when I tried to have a doodle Deedle ladle loodle rhythm instead of a ta ta ta ta ta ta ta. (This will make sense if you watch it). As an added bonus, it was a new technique I was trying out live, so I added extra breath to my solo when I’d get twisted up and have to stop.

also, learn solos or Parker heads and mimic that phrasing. There are a lot more rests than I expected.

[gitman]

It's a tricky subject since phrasing is such a personal thing and depending on tempo and style it can vary enormously.... However, working on 8th note lines, triplets, syncopation, SPACE and breathing is NEVER futile. Playing along with solos you KNOW and like (even if it's just a single phrase) helps a lot - not necessarily a guitar solo but piano, sax and trumpet might not always be the best place to start but here ARE exceptions : Paul Desmond, Chet Baker, Joe Sample come to mind ....
Practice /rehearse regularly with a drummer, a bassist, take some extra lessons !

[GuyBoden]

I prefer to slow tracks down, so that I can hear the phrasing clearer.

"Feeding Your Ears" with careful, attentive listening to good phrases.
Here's a nice Charlie Parker phrase slowed down, so that I can hear it clearer:

[AdroitMage]

LISTEN a lot to players who have great phrasing. Transcribe some of their improv. TOI, it takes time and practice to develop great phrasing. It doesn't happen overnight.

[Jimmy blue note]

Phrasing is the most personal aspect of soloing; it's the assertion of your personality IN SPITE of and not DERIVED FROM the elemental tools of scales, note choice, arpeggiation, harmonic structure... Those are all part of what you learn, phrasing is what you carve with space, rhythm and your own personality.

From the beginnings of the swing jazz era right up until now, your phrasing is your signature.

I went through a period of time when I didn't get it. And my lines were lifeless. It all changed when I began to scat. Yeah I'm a guitarist, but when I put the guitar down and began to learn ALL the music I play from a vocalist's perspective, THEN I started to get it.

I'd make a rhythm track with a looper, or a backing track, or just a metronome, and sing a scat line following pitches with my hand, like tracing a notation line in the air. This let me see space from pitch. Then I'd sing variations from the head the same way, but with an attention to rhythmic variation. Scatting this way let me develop a musical identity without the burden of hands playing an instrument and playing licks before I could hear them. You can do this anywhere, in your car, in the grocery store, walking in the park, in the practice room. Do it and you'll start to find what makes you sing a phrase. Your time will get tight when you eliminate the second-guess factour.

When I scat, (it sounds awful by the way), I found my phrasing identity, AND I developed a more intimate and closer relationship with the piece itself.
The next step is to be able to PLAY the lines I learned to feel and create naturally. This is ear/hand training, another neglected skill.

Ear, voice, engagement, imagination, execution.
This is the way I taught my guitar to sing anyway.

[rpjazzguitar]

Phrasing is the most personal aspect of soloing; it's the assertion of your personality IN SPITE of and not DERIVED FROM the elemental tools of scales, note choice, arpeggiation, harmonic structure... Those are all part of what you learn, phrasing is what you carve with space, rhythm and your own personality.

From the beginnings of the swing jazz era right up until now, your phrasing is your signature.

I went through a period of time when I didn't get it. And my lines were lifeless. It all changed when I began to scat. Yeah I'm a guitarist, but when I put the guitar down and began to learn ALL the music I play from a vocalist's perspective, THEN I started to get it.

I'd make a rhythm track with a looper, or a backing track, or just a metronome, and sing a scat line following pitches with my hand, like tracing a notation line in the air. This let me see space from pitch. Then I'd sing variations from the head the same way, but with an attention to rhythmic variation. Scatting this way let me develop a musical identity without the burden of hands playing an instrument and playing licks before I could hear them. You can do this anywhere, in your car, in the grocery store, walking in the park, in the practice room. Do it and you'll start to find what makes you sing a phrase. Your time will get tight when you eliminate the second-guess factour.

When I scat, (it sounds awful by the way), I found my phrasing identity, AND I developed a more intimate and closer relationship with the piece itself.
The next step is to be able to PLAY the lines I learned to feel and create naturally. This is ear/hand training, another neglected skill.

Ear, voice, engagement, imagination, execution.
This is the way I taught my guitar to sing anyway.

This is an important post.

Singing seems to naturally bring out better phrasing.

The only thing I'd add is to be careful not to forget about phrasing while you're playing. It can be easy to get distracted.

[pamosmusic]

The thing I said in post #3 haha

This is an important post.

[vintagelove]

Improving/changing your feel is where learning and playing with full solos can really help.

I don't find that to be really all that helpful for improvisation (internalizing 5 notes is much more fruitful), but when I hear a player that just plays something like I never would (dolphy, wessel anderson, holdsworth, etc), that's when learning full chorus's or solos really helps you understand their feel/note choice/phrasing etc.

[ragman1]

I recently posted a thread asking for examples of fanstastic Blues playing and was completely thrilled by the response - I have so much listening to do.

Recently?

Jamie, we've had this conversation before. You didn't like it then and you probably won't like it now. Please accept that I'm not being horrid to you. I wasn't then and I'm not now.

Here's a list of threads you've started since you arrived here. You joined in October 23 and started asking for stuff right away:

2023

Jazz Book Recommendations
Book Covering Single Note Soloing over Maj & Minor ii-V-I
Jazz Book Recommendation for Soloing


2024

Book covering soloing over a Jazz-Blues
Learning to Solo over Jazz Changes [QUESTION]
Please Recommend Me Some Beginner Solos/Heads to Learn
Different "Ways" of Learning/Practicing a Jazz Standard
Blues and Jazz-Blues Comping Recommendations?
Jazz and Blues Single Note Soloing Recommendations ?
3rds & 6ths Vocabulary in Jazz-Blues [QUESTION]
6 Tunes to teach you as much as possible ?
Help Me Find Licks / Lines to Play ...
"Beginner" Progressive Chord Melody Book of Arrangements of Jazz Standards?
Best Jazz Guitar Etude Collection You’ve Found
Most Common 'Chord Pairs/Friends'
Progressive List of Solos that improved your 'vocab'
Starter Chord Solo to Learn ?
Jazz / Blues Albums Full of Vocab Ear Candy
Blues Guitar Comping / Chords/Rhythm Resources?
Help / Resources Soloing over Dom 7 Chords (Vamps)


2025

Developing Major Chord Vocab By Practising the Major Scale?
Getting Started with Chromaticism / Approaches / Enclosures
How do you 'think' when playing something in Mixolydian or Dorian?
'Essential' Technical Exercises for Jazz Guitar
Jazz Sight-Reading / Note Reading Material Book
You're Only Allowed 6 Tunes!
Your Favourite Recordings / Videos of Players Playing The Blues
How To Improve 'Phrasing / Feel' ?

What it did make me realise is that despite having a decent theory knowledge of the 'right' things to play, as well as a good vocabulary of 'licks/lines' I can use over the various sections of the form. I just find that my playing still sounds like, well, s**t ! - just stiff/plastic and frankly inauthentic.

Absolutely, that's just it. Quite right. But apparently you never stopped to ask yourself WHY all this knowledge wasn't doing the trick. Rather, having said you weren't really getting anywhere, you've simply started yet another one about phrasing!

So, time to reconsider the whole thing.

Firstly, I'm not you. What works for one person may not work for another. However, some things are universally true. It's largely a matter of getting down and starting again differently.

I've been where you are, thrilled at my new book/CD and all that. But I learned next to nothing from any of it. Personally, I made progress by sitting down and working, working, working at it.

--------------------

What's a tune you like? I mean really, really like. So play the chords, know them backwards, like writing your own name. Then play the head over them. Don't just mechanically churn it out, play it with some feeling.

Then ask yourself how you want it to sound when you do it, not when somebody else does it. Go back to the simplest basic things. You can find them anywhere, in a good tutor, online, or by listening to other players.

Then find out how to play it the way you want to play it. And don't stop till you've got somewhere. I promise you, the feeling that you're doing it yourself will give you immense confidence and a sense of creativity. You're no longer copying what others say, you're expressing what you want to say.

But it's a long, hard road. But, you know, if you really want to do something you just get on with it. People who say 'How long will it take?' aren't interested in the music, they just want a result.

How do you improve your phrasing / feel? I appreciate this is really an almost impossible question to answer but any advice appreciated.

Is it just a case of shedding lines until they sound smooth, and importantly that you believe them, or am I missing something?

Apologies if this is a total beginner question.

It's not a beginner question, it's a fundamental one. 'Phrasing' means what it says. It means breaking up the tune into the right sections so that it sounds right. It's very simple.

Say you had a 12-bar blues. Would you play it like this:

G7 - C7 - G7
G7 - C7 - %
G7 - % - D7
C7 - G7 - D7

Or like this:

G7 - C7 - G7 - %
C7 - % - G7 - %
D7 - C7 - G7 - D7

Et voila.

[Tomcat]

ALl said above plus record yourself and listen back, short forms - start with one chorus, then listen and change what you dont like

[ragman1]

Yes, thanks, good point. Record what you do against a background. Not to be judgemental but to check you're on the beat, the phrasing's good, and it sounds the way it should.

The head's probably quite easy but the test is the soloing. You inevitably won't get there at first but you'll improve the more you try. Small steps, my friend, small steps.

Don't be too ambitious, no one said it was easy. Personally, I throw away more stuff than I keep. And I've been doing it years.

"Never play anything that's hard. If it's hard don't play it!" - YouTube

[pamosmusic]

Improving/changing your feel is where learning and playing with full solos can really help.

I don't find that to be really all that helpful for improvisation (internalizing 5 notes is much more fruitful), but when I hear a player that just plays something like I never would (dolphy, wessel anderson, holdsworth, etc), that's when learning full chorus's or solos really helps you understand their feel/note choice/phrasing etc.

This is a good point.

I was transcribing a ton of Grant Green around this time last year. Learned some great Grant vocab, but after a couple of the solos, I was playing at a jam session and was just relaxed and leaving a bunch of space. And I was like "hey, where did all this space come from."

So I don't really think it's necessary for folks to transcribe full solos. It can be an onerous and just taking what you like is great. But there are some really great things that can take a minute to sink in and really seem to come from that longer process.

[jamiehenderson1993]

So, time to reconsider the whole thing.

Firstly, I'm not you. What works for one person may not work for another. However, some things are universally true. It's largely a matter of getting down and starting again differently.

I've been where you are, thrilled at my new book/CD and all that. But I learned next to nothing from any of it. Personally, I made progress by sitting down and working, working, working at it.

--------------------

What's a tune you like? I mean really, really like. So play the chords, know them backwards, like writing your own name. Then play the head over them. Don't just mechanically churn it out, play it with some feeling.

Then ask yourself how you want it to sound when you do it, not when somebody else does it. Go back to the simplest basic things. You can find them anywhere, in a good tutor, online, or by listening to other players.

Then find out how to play it the way you want to play it. And don't stop till you've got somewhere. I promise you, the feeling that you're doing it yourself will give you immense confidence and a sense of creativity. You're no longer copying what others say, you're expressing what you want to say.

But it's a long, hard road. But, you know, if you really want to do something you just get on with it. People who say 'How long will it take?' aren't interested in the music, they just want a result.



It's not a beginner question, it's a fundamental one. 'Phrasing' means what it says. It means breaking up the tune into the right sections so that it sounds right. It's very simple.
.

Great advice here - thank you for typing it.

[jamiehenderson1993]

This is a good point.

I was transcribing a ton of Grant Green around this time last year. Learned some great Grant vocab, but after a couple of the solos, I was playing at a jam session and was just relaxed and leaving a bunch of space. And I was like "hey, where did all this space come from."

So I don't really think it's necessary for folks to transcribe full solos. It can be an onerous and just taking what you like is great. But there are some really great things that can take a minute to sink in and really seem to come from that longer process.

Thank you also for this - I think Grant Green is going to be listened to a lot this summer! with guitar in hand too!

[jamiehenderson1993]

.

Really interesting video - thank you for sending it. I played the head to Au Privave for quite a while after watching it

[jamiehenderson1993]

It may help to try and sing other people’s stuff if you like their phrasing and then try to play it yourself.

Avoid learning music from music notation (including tab) for a while. Use it if you just, but start with the sound.

Notation is digital, hearing and singing is analogue.

Phrasing is analogue and only imperfectly represented in notation at best. A good reader reads beyond the notes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thank you for sharing this advice - very difficult to get into the habit of doing, but I imagine it will be very fruitful if I stick with it. Thank you again.

[ragman1]

Great advice here - thank you for typing it.

Typing it wasn't an issue. I had something to say and I just said it, no effort at all. It's only an effort when you don't really want to do it... just like playing the guitar :-)

[Jimmy blue note]

Gotta throw this in.
When I was listening to solos casually, I heard the miracle and magic of long lines. When I listened and learned as a player, I heard shorter phrases, really important punchy statements embedded within the longer line.
Learn to work in smaller pieces, even embracing two notes defining a chord tone, and create smaller phrases.
There's a temptation to be wowed by things you can't do, like make a long line and concentrate on notes and not the space.
For me, to hear and play smaller phrases helped me immeasurably-to respect harmony, to voice lead, to create flow, to understand how to use space to create urgency and accent. This also opened up the art of shifting. When and where to shift. Once those two things came together, long lines followed with ease.

It takes time to develop this perception. Keep it in mind.