Neural Amp Modeler (NAM) is the unbeatable?

**Gustavo Eiriz** · 07-05-2023, 12:17 AM

Hi there, it been so long, and i am thankful to this forum where i learned lots.
Has anyone tried NAM (Neural amp modeler)?. It is free and is open source code, and everyone can upload a capture of his own amplifier and everyone can play it for free. Null test revealed that this software seems to be the more accurate modeler out there right now, comparing to kempers and Tonex and some expensive stuff. I tried it at home and found it very good, there are some Fender Princenton Reverbs there, many Twin Reverbs. Has anyone experience with it? We need to upload a polytone profile to "tonehunt" the site where everybody shares the captures they make.
Best to everyone

**jorgemg1984** · 07-05-2023, 06:10 AM

I tried with it and liked it - it's very good. I just strongly prefer modelling to captures, and therefore I use Helix Native. But for people who enjoy captures and never play gigs, there's not much sense getting the Kemper or the Tonex, NAM will be just as good and it's free. I guess sooner or later someone will release a cheap pedal based on it.

**GuyBoden** · 07-05-2023, 08:33 AM

Someone kindly created NAM LV2 plugin for Linux, works in Ardour7.

GitHub - mikeoliphant/neural-amp-modeler-lv2: Neural Amp Modeler LV2 plugin implementation

**jorgemg1984** · 07-05-2023, 08:35 AM

Originally Posted by GuyBoden

Someone kindly created NAM LV2 plugin for Linux, works in Ardour7.

GitHub - mikeoliphant/neural-amp-modeler-lv2: Neural Amp Modeler LV2 plugin implementation

Ok, that's new

I guess it makes the chance of someone making a pedal out of it much higher!

**GuyBoden** · 07-05-2023, 08:38 AM

Originally Posted by jorgemg1984

Ok, that's new

I guess it makes the chance of someone making a pedal out of it much higher!

I'm using Ardour and a scan finds the NAM plugin.

**jorgemg1984** · 07-05-2023, 08:42 AM

Originally Posted by GuyBoden

I'm using Ardour and a scan finds the NAM plugin.

Yeah, I use Reaper and it finds it really fast too. But I mean that with a Linux implementation, I would say it's much easier to create something like the Tonex pedal, so you don't need to use the computer at all... Also, the Tonex pedal can't do the captures, you need a specific audio interface. If someone could implement the NAM plugin in a pedal plus the ability to capture, at a cheap price point, it would be brilliant. There's a few pedals that do captures on their own, but they're all expensive (kemper, quad cortex, headrush pedalboard).

**GuyBoden** · 07-05-2023, 08:58 AM

Originally Posted by jorgemg1984

Yeah, I use Reaper and it finds it really fast too. But I mean that with a Linux implementation, I would say it's much easier to create something like the Tonex pedal, so you don't need to use the computer at all... Also, the Tonex pedal can't do the captures, you need a specific audio interface. If someone could implement the NAM plugin in a pedal plus the ability to capture, at a cheap price point, it would be brilliant. There's a few pedals that do captures on their own, but they're all expensive (kemper, quad cortex, headrush pedalboard).

Pedals are too expensive for what they actually are and can do, if you're willing to use a laptop live, it will do everything and lot more.

**jorgemg1984** · 07-05-2023, 09:03 AM

Originally Posted by GuyBoden

Pedals are too expensive for what they actually are and can do, if you're willing to use a laptop live, it will do everything and lot more.

Yeah, that's actually a good point - might try it some day

**m_d** · 07-05-2023, 10:28 AM

I've listened to many of Amalgam Audio's demoes on YouTube, mostly rock, but well made. Might be the best sounding digital amp sounds I've heard, in fact I don't believe I could tell they were digital amps in a blind test.

**Gustavo Eiriz** · 07-05-2023, 02:54 PM

I uploaded some demos, with and without Neural amp. Keeping the same reverb and previous eq.

**jorgemg1984** · 07-05-2023, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by Gustavo Eiriz

I uploaded some demos, with and without Neural amp. Keeping the same reverb and previous eq.

Sounds good, which IR did you use?

**Gustavo Eiriz** · 07-05-2023, 11:15 PM

If I am not wrong a Fender Princeton Reverb Sm57 bright.
I low cutted it and took oit some 4khz harshness previous to yhe NAM... the reverb is an spring reverb by softube.
I guess we need a polytone capture for warmness

**jorgemg1984** · 07-07-2023, 11:56 AM

The Neural Amp Modeler - NAM - has arrived! - News - MOD Audio Forum

**jzucker** · 07-08-2023, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by jorgemg1984

Ok, that's new

I guess it makes the chance of someone making a pedal out of it much higher!

i think tonex is already that. Not open source but a pedal version of capture player and has some rudimentary effects as well.

**jorgemg1984** · 07-08-2023, 05:58 PM

Originally Posted by jzucker

i think tonex is already that. Not open source but a pedal version of capture player and has some rudimentary effects as well.

Yes, but if you have an audio interface with a reamp out (high impedance instrument level out) and you don't want to pay for the Tonex, you can make your own captures for free with this software. I tried some of the profiles, and it sounds great.

**jorgemg1984** · 07-08-2023, 06:00 PM

Plus, it's expected more pedals start supporting plugins, and the Tonex is not open source

**InsufferableRhythm** · 07-09-2023, 01:58 AM

I wrote a TONEX plugin for my Dream 65.

It's pretty much the typical LSTM approach. There's a convolution layer in front. That's innovation, I guess.

The included IK models are encrypted. I suspect that user generated models are also encrypted.

Maybe someone less cautious about publicly circumventing DRM will come along.

**jorgemg1984** · 07-09-2023, 05:37 AM

Originally Posted by InsufferableRhythm

I wrote a TONEX plugin for my Dream 65.

It's pretty much the typical LSTM approach. There's a convolution layer in front. That's innovation, I guess.

The included IK models are encrypted. I suspect that user generated models are also encrypted.

Maybe someone less cautious about publicly circumventing DRM will come along.

Sorry, I didn't understood - you did a capture of the Dream 65 for the Tonex or you're able to run the Tonex plugin on the Dream 65? Thanks!

**InsufferableRhythm** · 07-09-2023, 08:26 AM

I am able to run TONEX models on the Dream 65.

**jorgemg1984** · 07-09-2023, 09:18 AM

Originally Posted by InsufferableRhythm

I am able to run TONEX models on the Dream 65.

Oh, that seems practical... Two pedals for the price of one!

Which one do you enjoy the most, the Dream or Tonex? Thanks!

**InsufferableRhythm** · 07-09-2023, 10:04 AM

My pedal actually had the plugins for everything in the UAFX line (at the time) just sitting on it. It's been many pedals for the price of one.

I also reimplemented the Tone Master modeling, so that's on there. Messed with NAM, too.

Overall, I prefer the Dream, it's that PAF into Fender amplifier sound that I love. No complications.

There's a Vibrolux 2x10 cab sim that is pretty good. They should make that available.

**jorgemg1984** · 07-09-2023, 10:15 AM

Oh, that seems great - I would like to have the knowledge to do that.

The Dream has had my curiosity for a while, I wish they hadn't modeled the amp with the bright switch on or they made a switch to turn the bright switch on and off (apparently you have to turn the boost on to disengage the bright switch). And that it would allow for 3rd party IRs. Would still like to try it.

I've been quite happy with the Helix Native, after a few tweaks, it sounds very good and Fender like.

The cab part is essential for modelling, I like the York Audio Twin JBL impulse responses a lot, by far my favourite for a clean Fender sound - and I've tried most of them. Their 57+121 mix is just perfect.

**InsufferableRhythm** · 07-09-2023, 10:47 AM

The Dream uses IIR filters (a cascade of five biquads, if I recall correctly), rather than FIR filters, for cabinet simulation. It's not directly compatible with third-party IRs.

I wrote a tool that can download and upload raw presets from/to the pedal over USB. There's a field in the presets to set the bright switch.

What tweaks do you do with Helix? Last time I tried it, it wasn't for me.

**jzucker** · 07-09-2023, 10:50 AM

Originally Posted by InsufferableRhythm

The Dream uses IIR filters (a cascade of five biquads, if I recall correctly), rather than FIR filters, for cabinet simulation. It's not directly compatible with third-party IRs.

I wrote a tool that can download and upload raw presets from/to the pedal over USB. There's a field in the presets to set the bright switch.

What tweaks do you do with Helix? Last time I tried it, it wasn't for me.

Not sure if you're talking to me but I have a ton of clips (jazz guitar, fusion/blues guitar, bass guitar) with helix. The only tweak I do is set the cab filter for 100hz and 4khz

Jack Zucker - YouTube if you want to hear my helix clips. I love it. It's technically not as good as fractal but I like the company a lot and there are a few features such as muting the outputs on power on/off that fractal never implemented and I got tired of it...

**jorgemg1984** · 07-09-2023, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by InsufferableRhythm

The Dream uses IIR filters (a cascade of five biquads, if I recall correctly), rather than FIR filters, for cabinet simulation. It's not directly compatible with third-party IRs.

I wrote a tool that can download and upload raw presets from/to the pedal over USB. There's a field in the presets to set the bright switch.

What tweaks do you do with Helix? Last time I tried it, it wasn't for me.

As Jack mentions, when using modelling on the Helix it needs a hicut on 4k and a lowcut on 100hz. If you use it just for FX, you don't need the filter, but if you use the amp modelling it's mandatory. And it needs to be the hicut/lowcut on the eq block, not the one on the IR/cab block (it has a 12db slope instead of 6db on the ir/cab block). And the York Audio IR was a revelation, too.

From those two premises, I use a Twin Reverb amp, normal channel (less gain), and the drive, mids, treble and presence very low, bass on 5 (all extra parameters on zero). A graphic eq to invert the mids (500hz 4db boost, 1k 5db cut), which I do on real Fender amps anyway. A very subtle compressor (la studio comp, based on the teletronix la-2a) and a little stereo spring reverb, and it's done.

Here's a small clip, that was recorded a few years ago on a guitar that it's not mine (ibanez george benson) but I think it sounds fine. It's just the guitar trough an Audio Interface and the Helix Native.