Who uses iReal Pro in jams or in performance?

[John A.]

... Don't know how Dylan does it.

Mumbling incomprehensibly helps.

[AllanAllen]

Mumbling incomprehensibly helps.

Beat me to it.

[Doug B]

Is there a software Real Book? I have iRealPro.

[gitman]

NEVER !!!!!! I use it with students and for learning tunes but NEVER on stage, anywhere ! For solo gigs I have a collection of professionally produced backing tracks which I mix in with "real" solo playing. The iReal stuff is lifeless, static, was never intended for use in a live situation - at least not by anybody for whom the idea of JAZZ is important....

[frankhond]

Mumbling incomprehensibly helps.

It’s called a teleprompter.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

For solo gigs I have a collection of professionally produced backing tracks which I mix in with "real" solo playing. The iReal stuff is lifeless, static, was never intended for use in a live situation - at least not by anybody for whom the idea of JAZZ is important....

Some might point out that backing tracks are static and lifeless. They’re exactly the same every time. There’s no interplay among the musicians. The soloist isn’t showing inspiration from innovative rhythms or novel new shell voicings. The band isn’t responding to new directions in the lead line or solos.

Others might opine that “real” solo playing means playing without accompaniment.

These are just observations from one who has never used a backing track on a gig. When I play solo jazz guitar, it’s just me on the stand. I also use iReal and multiple fake books on a tablet for tunes about which I’m uncertain, eg those I’ve never played before and those so deep in my memory that intros, bridges and other details are blurry. It’s nice to be able to respond to requests - and if it takes a teleprompter to play it well, I’m OK with it. So are audiences.

[docsteve]

Is there a software Real Book? I have iRealPro.

There are PDF files.

[Rick5]

Is there a software Real Book? I have iRealPro.

All of the volumes of the Hal Leonard RB series are available on Kindle.

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[Tal_175]

I was recently hired for a club gig that involved a mixed bag of styles. Some of the tunes were jazz standards. I either knew them or could sight read them without problems. I ended up bringing charts because I had no interest in learning most of the other tunes in the set. The tunes were also arranged, so I wasn't required to improvise.

I like knowing tunes if I'm going to improvise. Otherwise charts are fine. I'm known to shamelessly improvise by looking at the charts in jam sessions however. But I wouldn't do that outside of jam sessions or rehearsals.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

There are PDF files.

See post 14 in this thread.

[rpjazzguitar]

Just keep in mind that there are multiple iReal charts for many tunes, and they can differ greatly from each other.

These are made and contributed by users. The levels of detail and accuracy vary greatly. So be sure everyone’s using the exact same chart. There are a lot of weird changes in some iReal sheets.

I downloaded my charts from the forum that the app suggests. I have noticed that there are some tunes with two versions (not three or more afaik), but they are named differently. I don't use Ireal for that situation all that often, but I've yet to encounter a problem with different players using different versions. I wonder why our experience is so different. Different d/l's of charts perhaps?

For most of what I do, I'm still looking at paper if I don't know the tune.

In fact, when I get called for casuals, the leader usually has multiple copies of a book and everybody gets one. No discussion of who knows which tune or which changes are going to be used. There is some variation to address as the tune gets played.

Even when I'm out and about and hear a band someplace, I rarely see chart-less. Nowadays people are looking at lead sheets on a tablet if there isn't paper.

I've been to one jam where the sitters-in are expected to know the tunes they call, but the organist (kicking bass) has his phone out. The leader, who has a well earned Grammy, does seem to know all the tunes. OTOH, if he doesn't know it, they aren't going to play it, since he's the leader.

[Rick5]

I downloaded my charts from the forum that the app suggests. I have noticed that there are some tunes with two versions (not three or more afaik), but they are named differently. I don't use Ireal for that situation all that often, but I've yet to encounter a problem with different players using different versions. I wonder why our experience is so different. Different d/l's of charts perhaps?

For most of what I do, I'm still looking at paper if I don't know the tune.

In fact, when I get called for casuals, the leader usually has multiple copies of a book and everybody gets one. No discussion of who knows which tune or which changes are going to be used. There is some variation to address as the tune gets played.

Even when I'm out and about and hear a band someplace, I rarely see chart-less. Nowadays people are looking at lead sheets on a tablet if there isn't paper.

I've been to one jam where the sitters-in are expected to know the tunes they call, but the organist (kicking bass) has his phone out. The leader, who has a well earned Grammy, does seem to know all the tunes. OTOH, if he doesn't know it, they aren't going to play it, since he's the leader.

I always download the latest version of the ireal jazz charts because I noticed they do make corrections to older charts too. I remember an older version had some atypical changes for doxy, but in the most recent version, it's OK.

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[nevershouldhavesoldit]

I downloaded my charts from the forum that the app suggests. I have noticed that there are some tunes with two versions (not three or more afaik), but they are named differently. I don't use Ireal for that situation all that often, but I've yet to encounter a problem with different players using different versions. I wonder why our experience is so different. Different d/l's of charts perhaps?

I often find 3 or more versions of a tune, especially if it’s played a lot. For the first hour of my trio’s weekly Thursday night jazz show, we host a vocalist. I prepare a playbook for each one so we’re all playing the same changes, dynamics, structure etc in the vocalists’ keys. Unless I already have a chart, I start with iReal sheets, correcting and editing them into what I need. I export the book as a pdf and send it to the singer plus our bass player, drummer, and any other players I may bring in for the gig. We usually do between 10 and 12 tunes in 60-75 minutes.

Using the internet search function in the iReal app doesn’t produce anywhere close to the number you get by Googling “ iReal pro [name of tune]”, and the only consistent source I’ve found is the iReal forum. Many tunes have 3 or more different versions. I just randomly entered How High The Moon and got 3 different versions on the first page:

[Rick5]

I often find 3 or more versions of a tune, especially if it’s played a lot. For the first hour of my trio’s weekly Thursday night jazz show, we host a vocalist. I prepare a playbook for each one so we’re all playing the same changes, dynamics, structure etc in the vocalists’ keys. Unless I already have a chart, I start with iReal sheets, correcting and editing them into what I need. I export the book as a pdf and send it to the singer plus our bass player, drummer, and any other players I may bring in for the gig. We usually do between 10 and 12 tunes in 60-75 minutes.

Using the internet search function in the iReal app doesn’t produce anywhere close to the number you get by Googling “ iReal pro [name of tune]”, and the only consistent source I’ve found is the iReal forum. Many tunes have 3 or more different versions. I just randomly entered How High The Moon and got 3 different versions on the first page:

Interesting. I never thought to search the forum for individual tunes. I just download the big file (jazz 1410 or whatever it's called now). That seems to just have one version as far as I have seen.



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[Doug B]

There are PDF files.

Thanks, that was what I wanted-for my phone.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Interesting. I never thought to search the forum for individual tunes. I just download the big file (jazz 1410 or whatever it's called now). That seems to just have one version as far as I have seen

And it does. But there are many great tunes that aren’t in those downloadable lists. So iReal users have created and contributed many, many charts through the forum that weren’t available in the big lists or were found to be unsatisfactory for some reason. In truth, many of the charts in those genre lists are flawed - some severely so. But it’s easier to edit them than it is to write a new one from scratch if all you need is a chord chart. I use MuseScore if I have to write a full lead sheet or more.

It’s often worth looking at more than 1 iReal chart for any tune if you’re not thrilled with the first one you find. Some are much better than others.

[Rick5]

And it does. But there are many great tunes that aren’t in those downloadable lists. So iReal users have created and contributed many, many charts through the forum that weren’t available in the big lists or were found to be unsatisfactory for some reason. In truth, many of the charts in those genre lists are flawed - some severely so. But it’s easier to edit them than it is to write a new one from scratch if all you need is a chord chart. I use MuseScore if I have to write a full lead sheet or more.

It’s often worth looking at more than 1 iReal chart for any tune if you’re not thrilled with the first one you find. Some are much better than others.

Great post. Thanks. I have noticed some significant differences between the hal leonard RB series and ireal. For my "core" tunes, I really try to learn them from recordings and then check that against multiple fake books. For gigs, I learn all the tunes without books. I really only use ireal for jazz jams if I haven't played the tune in a long time. I just got back from a jazz jam and didn't have to use any of this stuff. I called some tunes and knew the others (without charts) that were called.

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[Spook410]

If you have a local community of jazz players to play with, you don't need backing tracks.

If your style is chord melody, you don't need backing tracks

If you don't play other instruments like saxophone at your solo gig, you don't need backing tracks

Otherwise, you do and you have to learn how to make them sound their best, which iReal styles and instruments to avoid, and how much to mix in.

If handled with some taste the audience won't care and you can perform.

As for those amazing jazz stars whose art demands they make it clear to all of us that *they* would never perform using backing tracks.. yea.. carry on.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

As for those amazing jazz stars whose art demands they make it clear to all of us that *they* would never perform using backing tracks.. yea.. carry on.

Who might those dastardly people be?

[AllanAllen]

Who might those dastardly people be?

That’d be me for sure. I can’t see myself playing to iReal tracks on stage. OP can do it and that’s fine, but it’s not for me.

[mr. beaumont]

I think it really depends on the level and culture of the jam...and that's why it's always a good idea to attend a few times as a spectator before signing the sheet.

Or let me say it this way...I ain't gonna be the first to pull my phone out...

[Spook410]

Who might those dastardly people be?

never.. you are one of my favorite posters here. Lots of insight. Good manners. Respect for others. But yea.. saying you would never use backing tracks implies a stigma to their use. Not sure that's what you intended and there's likely more than a little defensiveness on my part. Thing is, many, probably most, find themselves in situations where backing tracks make sense. And while the sophisticated audiences in the major urban centers may eschew such performances, here is southern Oregon I've never seen them object when the tracks were presented properly. Not to mention all the buskers in the world or the thousands on youtube using them. And posts in places like this forum where some of us have years of experience with them can help those considering this path use the tools better.

[mr. beaumont]

Every few years we have a "tracks in performance" thread, usually goes off the rails.

I'll be polite about it, but I'll just say I've worked pretty hard over the last 2 decades to get a full night's worth of solo guitar together, and well, I'm not going to be using any tracks.

There IS a little stigma to it for me, because I've seen places around here who have the room for a duo or trio (and who are making PLENTY of $) opt for a guy with tracks over real musicians, just to pay less, and I'll be honest with you, I don't like that.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

never.. you are one of my favorite posters here. Lots of insight. Good manners. Respect for others. But yea.. saying you would never use backing tracks implies a stigma to their use. Not sure that's what you intended and there's likely more than a little defensiveness on my part. Thing is, many, probably most, find themselves in situations where backing tracks make sense. And while the sophisticated audiences in the major urban centers may eschew such performances, here is southern Oregon I've never seen them object when the tracks were presented properly. Not to mention all the buskers in the world or the thousands on youtube using them. And posts in places like this forum where some of us have years of experience with them can help those considering this path use the tools better.

Thanks so much for your kind words! But you're paraphrasing me inaccurately - I did not say that I would "never use a backing track". I only said that I've never done it, to wit:

These are just observations from one who has never used a backing track on a gig.

I have no experience with using backing tracks on gigs, so my opinion is supported by nothing but my opinion and should be taken only as that. I was focusing on the seeming inconsistency of criticising iReal Pro for being static and lifeless while praising backing tracks, which are truly static and lifeless. Every time you play the same track, it's exactly the same - dynamics, phrasing, space etc are all set in digital stone. A recording cannot interact with you and it cannot provide new inspiration for you to interact with it each time you use it. It may in fact have been recorded by world class players using a stellar chart - but it is static and lifeless by definition.

OTOH, live musicians playing from an iReal chart have the option to enhance it as they wish using the edit function and/or their imaginations - it's not static. We're free to interpret and present the music as we wish, changing tempo, time signature, key, style etc. So playing from iReal is only lifeless if the players choose not to breathe life into it.

Backing tracks are obviously popular, and I'm sure they help get gigs because they give the employer multiple musicians for the price of one. I'm not living under a rock - I know this is now necessary to get work, and it's true in major metropolitan areas as well as less populous and demanding regions. Having paid dues to AFM Local 77 for many years and witnessed firsthand the replacement of live music jobs by sequencers etc, I'm still a bit put off by the idea because it has drastically reduced available work for musicians. It has also reduced the mean fee for gigs because those replaced by the musical deus ex machina have had to lower their fees to get gigs. Clubs around here are paying less today than they did 25 years ago for local musicians.

Lastly, I was saying that I'm a bit frosted by those who purport to be playing "solo" but are using backing tracks. Playing with multiple others is simply not playing solo, whether the rest of the band is live or canned. Again, I know it's necessary for many to do this to get gigs. I'm not criticising the practice - I'm criticising the use of the term solo when it's simply not solo playing. The art of solo jazz guitar is withering because fewer and fewer are learning to do it. There's no reason to put in the time and effort when gigs are easier to get if you bring a device full of players with you. This saddens me greatly.

I know, I know - I sound like a crusty old curmudgeon. But at least I play Eastmans through Quilters and Henriksens. I'm not a total throwback.

[Spook410]

My apologies for mischaracterizing your thoughts on the matter. Though you were representing yourself as the stoic solo jazz performer.. alone on his chair.. sans tracks.. presenting art and craft to the cold, cruel world. That did seem to imply.. well.. never mind.. you get to say what you mean without the jaded interpretation of observers far away peering through a dense fog. It would be nice to attend some of your gigs.

Playing solo.. guess there's shades of grey and we need better terms. Playing with tracks by yourself is not playing in an ensemble. And with a proper mix, it's somewhat unforgiving. But it's not the same as a performer doing chord melody. And then there are the guitarists facing the performance challenges of classical pieces which is yet another category.

And if you think things are bad now.. AI is quite capable of fulfilling the jazz guitar role.