What kind of pick did Johnny Smith use?

[noober]

Did a quick google search and didn’t find much. Thanks!

[nyc chaz]

Someone else on here recently asked this.V picks makes a pick called the Farley which is supposed to be a copy of one he used later in life.

[bediles]

Probs a pretty high chirp factor with that pick

[nyc chaz]

Any pick over 1.5 mm outside of maybe a Blue Chip is going to chirp but that doesn't seem to bother a lot of guys.

[Bill Eisele]

Out of Lin Flanigan's biography of Johnny Smith "Moonlight in Vermont" (page 191):

"With regard to plectrums, Smith favored Ernie Ball Stubbies, which were small and heavy gauged at one millimeter thick. When these ceased production he stockpiled all that he could obtain. These plectrums had a tapered point so that the leading edge on one side and the diagonally opposed leading edge on the other side met the strings with flat surfaces. Bob Yelin recalls, 'They were small in a round and pointed shape. But in order to get a blues or sad feel for single note playing he filed the point of the pick to make it thinner.'"

Not exactly sure about the description of the tapered point or Bob Yelin's recollection of the pick being round and pointed at the same time, and the blues/sad feel from the filed down point.

I have the Farley pick and couldn't get a tone I liked out of it so it went into the pick reject box. Maybe I will fish it out and file it down!

[nyc chaz]

Out of Lin Flanigan's biography of Johnny Smith "Moonlight in Vermont" (page 191):

"With regard to plectrums, Smith favored Ernie Ball Stubbies, which were small and heavy gauged at one millimeter thick. When these ceased production he stockpiled all that he could obtain. These plectrums had a tapered point so that the leading edge on one side and the diagonally opposed leading edge on the other side met the strings with flat surfaces. Bob Yelin recalls, 'They were small in a round and pointed shape. But in order to get a blues or sad feel for single note playing he filed the point of the pick to make it thinner.'"

Not exactly sure about the description of the tapered point or Bob Yelin's recollection of the pick being round and pointed at the same time, and the blues/sad feel from the filed down point.

I have the Farley pick and couldn't get a tone I liked out of it so it went into the pick reject box. Maybe I will fish it out and file it down!

That's an interesting anecdote from that book Bill but were stubbies ever discontinued?The 1mm stubby is one of my favorite picks, in fact i like most picks made from polycarbonate or thermoplastic in the 70mm to 1 mm size.They sound really good acoustically and smooth contacting the string.Closest thing to a Blue Chip along with Dunlop Primetone Sculpted picks.

[Bill Eisele]

That's an interesting anecdote from that book Bill but were stubbies ever discontinued?The 1mm stubby is one of my favorite picks, in fact i like most picks made from polycarbonate or thermoplastic in the 70mm to 1 mm size.They sound really good acoustically and smooth contacting the string.Closest thing to a Blue Chip along with Dunlop Primetone Sculpted picks.

Charlie, It does seem that they were discontinued as I can't find them currently available as an Ernie Ball pick. There are the Dunlop Stubbys but not sure if they are patterned after the original Ernie Ball Stubbies. My preference for a pick is the D'Andrea Pro-Plec 351 shape in the 1.5 mm thickness and the original material (https://dandreausa.com/product/guita...lec-351-shape/). They had to switch over to another kind of material because the picks were warping after getting into the hands of the retailers and customers. I'm not a fan of the newer material and I'm not sure if they found a way to switch back to the original material.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Charlie, It does seem that they were discontinued as I can't find them currently available as an Ernie Ball pick. There are the Dunlop Stubbys but not sure if they are patterned after the original Ernie Ball Stubbies. My preference for a pick is the D'Andrea Pro-Plec 351 shape in the 1.5 mm thickness and the original material (https://dandreausa.com/product/guita...lec-351-shape/). They had to switch over to another kind of material because the picks were warping after getting into the hands of the retailers and customers. I'm not a fan of the newer material and I'm not sure if they found a way to switch back to the original material.

I think the problem was that they recently switched materials and/or the finishing process, and the new ones warp. I've loved them for a long time and had just gotten a big bag of them about a year ago when the warping complaints began. Mine were fine, so I didn't believe it until I started using picks from the new bag. They warp through one gig, so I can't use them. I started the search asgain and eventually wound up using Dunlop 477R204 Jazztones. I bought a bag of 24 and am happy with them, but now I'm told that they're no longer being made.

I think I'll scout up another big bag or two of the 204s and call it a day.

[nyc chaz]

Charlie, It does seem that they were discontinued as I can't find them currently available as an Ernie Ball pick. There are the Dunlop Stubbys but not sure if they are patterned after the original Ernie Ball Stubbies. My preference for a pick is the D'Andrea Pro-Plec 351 shape in the 1.5 mm thickness and the original material (https://dandreausa.com/product/guita...lec-351-shape/). They had to switch over to another kind of material because the picks were warping after getting into the hands of the retailers and customers. I'm not a fan of the newer material and I'm not sure if they found a way to switch back to the original material.

My mistake Bill.i confused Dunlop Stubbys with Ernie Ball.I literally have hundreds of picks i've collected through the years,i have to check and see in my endless stash of picks if i have any Ernie Ball stubbys and if they are different from Dunlop.

[Cunamara]

I have the Farley and IMHO it's an awful pick. The bevel is wavy and badly finished rather than smooth (other than the Fusion, I've not liked any of the V Picks). But in general I don't like the sound of polycarbonate picks.

I've never seen an Ernie Ball stubby pick, was it a teardrop with a "speed bevel?"

[Bill Eisele]

My mistake Bill.i confused Dunlop Stubbys with Ernie Ball.I literally have hundreds of picks i've collected through the years,i have to check and see in my endless stash of picks if i have any Ernie Ball stubbys and if they are different from Dunlop.

No worries, Charlie. The biography says that when Ernie Ball discontinued the Stubbies that Johnny Smith went out and bought as many as he could find. So I am guessing it was when he was still an active performing and recording musician. That would have been decades ago. I would be very interested in knowing if you do find them in your stash. But even then he modified them so who would know how to get close to his modification if you do find some.

[Bill Eisele]

I have the Farley and IMHO it's an awful pick. The bevel is wavy and badly finished rather than smooth (other than the Fusion, I've not liked any of the V Picks). But in general I don't like the sound of polycarbonate picks.

I've never seen an Ernie Ball stubby pick, was it a teardrop with a "speed bevel?"

I have to agree with you on the Farley. I have found some of the V-Picks to sound very good but it’s difficult to figure out which ones will from the specs. For example, some of the thinner ones sound warmer with less clicking sounds than the thicker ones.

I have never seen an Ernie Ball Stubbie either. From the description it would appear to have been teardrop shaped with a speed bevel. But hard to say definitively. I searched the web for a photo but couldn’t find one.

[58flame]

Reviving this thread before another person wastes money on a Farley. It's mediocre at best and chrips markedly.

[GuyBoden]

I've been told JS used heavy gauge Diamond Strings, he preferred their tone. (He had a cupboard full of boxes of Diamond Strings.)

[Cunamara]

Yes, in an interview I read Johnny said he bought every Black Diamond string set he could find when they stopped production. He said his hearse would have a trailer carrying his strings on its way to the cemetery. Or words to that effect.

I've never seen an original set. I believe that there are Black Diamond guitar strings in production, but I've never tried them and don't know how they compare to the older brand. This package states "silver plated copper" wound over a steel core; I don't think I've ever seen a string for electric guitar designed like that. I also don't know whether they're claiming a pure copper winding or a copper alloy.

[garybaldy]

Any pick over 1.5 mm outside of maybe a Blue Chip is going to chirp but that doesn't seem to bother a lot of guys.

The 1.5 and 2.0 Dunlop Delrin 500 aren't too chirpy. I use a Clayton Acetal Imm now.

[nyc chaz]

Best new pick i have tried is the Dunlop Peter Frampton Vintage Teardrop picks.They are the size of a Dunlop 205.Nice bevel on them ,they are a little brighter than the 205, easy to grip and feel really good on the strings.

[Cunamara]

The 1.5 and 2.0 Dunlop Delrin 500 aren't too chirpy. I use a Clayton Acetal Imm now.

I used the 1.5 Delrin 500 for decades until I decided I wanted a smaller 358 or Jazz III sized pick instead of the 351 size. I also tried the 2.0 version. Neither were chirpy, very little pick noise on the strings and the edge treatment results in a nice, smooth release. It is an excellent pick for jazz, IMHO. Some people find them a little slippery but I never had any trouble holding onto them.

I tried the Claytons and did not like them. The square edge treatment sounded terrible in my opinion. Other people seem to get really good results with them, like Rich Severson, so it may simply be a matter of my pick technique not getting along with those picks. It's amazing how one pick will work great for one person and terribly for another.

[garybaldy]

I used the 1.5 Delrin 500 for decades until I decided I wanted a smaller 358 or Jazz III sized pick instead of the 351 size. I also tried the 2.0 version. Neither were chirpy, very little pick noise on the strings and the edge treatment results in a nice, smooth release. It is an excellent pick for jazz, IMHO. Some people find them a little slippery but I never had any trouble holding onto them.

I tried the Claytons and did not like them. The square edge treatment sounded terrible in my opinion. Other people seem to get really good results with them, like Rich Severson, so it may simply be a matter of my pick technique not getting along with those picks. It's amazing how one pick will work great for one person and terribly for another.

I do some rounding off to the tips of my Clayton (rounded triangle) picks and I have also changed one to the 'regular' pick shape, the code number of which I forget. They are not the easiest picks to use - the delrins are easier, but there is something about the sound of the Claytons that I prefer. They have to be held very lightly but without dropping them!!! ps I've seen RS using them.

[AllanAllen]

Yes, in an interview I read Johnny said he bought every Black Diamond string set he could find when they stopped production. He said his hearse would have a trailer carrying his strings on its way to the cemetery. Or words to that effect.

I've never seen an original set. I believe that there are Black Diamond guitar strings in production, but I've never tried them and don't know how they compare to the older brand. This package states "silver plated copper" wound over a steel core; I don't think I've ever seen a string for electric guitar designed like that. I also don't know whether they're claiming a pure copper winding or a copper alloy.

700 ACOUSTIC/ELECTRIC SILVER PLATED 2%
Experience a clean and crisp tone with Black Diamond Strings® silver-plated copper strings. These unique strings provide minimal tension for acoustic-electric guitars, delivering warmer tones than phosphor bronze options whilst maintaining their crispness. Perfect for any player looking to upgrade the sound of their acoustic-electric guitar.

700 Acoustic/Electric Silver Plated 2% | Black Diamond Strings(R)

[JKR]

Johnny's pick: Ernie Ball white cellulose .88 mm - discontinued many years ago (slightly narrower with a slightly more rounded tip than the Pickboy Rounded Raindrop on the right - not shown to scale here)



Strings: Black Diamond #100 with heavy flat wound 6th string for D tuning - until discontinued

[Cunamara]

Since the Jazz III it seems like almost all small picks are that shape, instead of the classic Gibson style teardrop (e.g., the Pickboy vs. the EB JS pick). The D'Andrea ProPlec 358 are about the only option for a real teardrop pick that is small.

[JKR]

Smith's Ernie Ball .88 is larger than a 358 shape and larger than the Jazziii shape.

EB .88 measures 15/16" at widest and 1 1/8" length.

The Pickboy measures 1" at widest and 1 1/8" length

[Lin Flanagan]

The last time that I saw Johnny, he gave me a handful of the picks that he had used himself longterm during his Colorado years. He had a shed load of them made when he had his music store. One batch had "Johnny Smith Music" printed on it, the other had just "Johnny Smith" on it.

Anyway, the nearest mass-produced pick I have found is the Dunlop Celluloid Heavy Teardrop 485-05HV pick:

CELLULOID SHELL TEARDROP PICK HEAVY - Dunlop

In shape, thickness, rigidity and tone, it's identical. When Johnny's pick is placed on top of the Dunlop, there's a tiny silhouette from the Dunlop, maybe 1mm but no more than that. So, it's as near as damn it the same thing. For some bizarre reason, I've found that the Dunlop shell version sounds identical to Johnny's pick, but the Dunlop black version does not. Weird, but that may just be my ears.

I hope that helps and is of interest.

Cheers.

[Bill Eisele]

The last time that I saw Johnny, he gave me a handful of the picks that he had used himself longterm during his Colorado years. He had a shed load of them made when he had his music store. One batch had "Johnny Smith Music" printed on it, the other had just "Johnny Smith" on it.

Anyway, the nearest mass-produced pick I have found is the Dunlop Celluloid Heavy Teardrop 485-05HV pick:

CELLULOID SHELL TEARDROP PICK HEAVY - Dunlop

In shape, thickness, rigidity and tone, it's identical. When Johnny's pick is placed on top of the Dunlop, there's a tiny silhouette from the Dunlop, maybe 1mm but no more than that. So, it's as near as damn it the same thing. For some bizarre reason, I've found that the Dunlop shell version sounds identical to Johnny's pick, but the Dunlop black version does not. Weird, but that may just be my ears.

I hope that helps and is of interest.

Cheers.

Thank you, Lin, for coming to the Forum, clarifying what's currently available on the market that most closely matches Johnny's picks when he lived in Colorado, and for authoring your wonderful biography on Johnny. All greatly appreciated! I will definitely be placing an order for the shell version!