Gambale

[Alter]

But he tunes the first two strings one octave lower, which gives the tuning its distinctive sound and voicing capabilities. It's an idea based on Nashville tuning. He demonstrates it here: (only viewable on YouTube)

[kris]

[GuyBoden]

But he tunes the first two strings one octave lower, which gives the tuning its distinctive sound and voicing capabilities. It's an idea based on Nashville tuning. He demonstrates it here: (only viewable on YouTube)

Thanks, I didn't know that the first two strings are an octave lower. I only looked at this tuning today.

[GuyBoden]

This is the Frank Gambale speed picking old video that I remember.

[Litterick]

Modes

[princeplanet]

Would you feel that way about another instrument playing lots of notes?

Or would you say this is more to do with your associations connected to guitar playing in particular? .....

I will admit that as a guitarist I can't help but be biased against guitarists when it comes to guitarists giving the impression they are trying to impress. It's because you can't bullshit a bullshitter! . Most of us probably started in Rock when it seemed important to prove you had speed in order to be considered "good" haha...

So we have learned to tell when some one else is trying it on, whether it's the kid at Guitar Centre, or even Frank Gambale. Don't get me wrong, I love playing my etudes at 300 bpm, it's fun, but I will not subject anyone else to hearing it, I'll even stop playing if my wife walks in the practice room. Busting out a fast passage
if it's felt at the right time to work up to a climax in the solo's arc is a desirable tool to have in the back pocket, but when the hammer's always in the hand, well, everything starts to look like a nail...

[DawgBone]

I once heare Blues Guitarist walk around the concert venue, playing a long 10-minute solo. The crowd loved it, but I am sure they were others that wanted the song to be concluded.

I was just trying to pay some bills, lol! Audience entertainment comes first vs pleasing the one non gigging guitarist in the crowd sitting in the back with a scowl and his arms crossed.

TBH it sounds like you saw Guitar Shorty, RIP. He'd walk around the block with his guitar and then come back to the club, playing the whole way. People ate that stuff up but I suppose some guitarists would be bothered by showboating. I'd suggest trying to make any money playing blues before criticizing that behavior. You have to take drastic measures. Damn him and those pentatonic licks! It pays to remember, it's not music, it's entertainment. I know this is an idea that is a foreign concept in today's jazz world but it is the truth.

[AlsoRan]

Would you feel that way about another instrument playing lots of notes?

Or would you say this is more to do with your associations connected to guitar playing in particular? or perhaps the way guitarists inflict themselves on an audience haha?

"Solo tolerance" is what a friend call this subject, and it is most certainly and individual thing depending upon the listener. I really believe people pick on guitarists more than other artists. For me, when the rhythm section is on its game, I can listen to solos that are quite long and ride the ebbs and flows. Also, I don't judge the soloist and think things like, "You foolish man, quit showing off" or "Was that really necessary?" All those judgements just complicate things. Just let me hear what you got.

[AlsoRan]

I was just trying to pay some bills, lol! Audience entertainment comes first vs pleasing the one non gigging guitarist in the crowd sitting in the back with a scowl and his arms crossed.

TBH it sounds like you saw Guitar Shorty, RIP. He'd walk around the block with his guitar and then come back to the club, playing the whole way. People ate that stuff up but I suppose some guitarists would be bothered by showboating. I'd suggest trying to make any money playing blues before criticizing that behavior. You have to take drastic measures. Damn him and those pentatonic licks! It pays to remember, it's not music, it's entertainment. I know this is an idea that is a foreign concept in today's jazz world but it is the truth.

Oh lord, please don't let me be mis-understood...!

You were close, it was Buddy Guy, although I have seen Guitar Shorty and others do the same thing. I love it. I was just pointing out that there are others who don't. I just don't criticize people on forums. It is too hard to explain in the written word. Now if we are talking in person, that is another matter it if is worth the time.

[Christian Miller]

I did a New Orleans style gig yesterday and the horn players went out into the audience and they love it. I think of it more as..hmmm… what’s the word now?….


oh yes ‘entertainment’

as for a ten minute solo.. some players can pull that off. I would expect Buddy to be one of them.

again there’s a difference between what you’d want on a record and what works in the room

[DawgBone]

I did a New Orleans style gig yesterday and the horn players went out into the audience and they love it. I think of it more as..hmmm… what’s the word now?….


oh yes ‘entertainment’

as for a ten minute solo.. some players can pull that off. I would expect Buddy to be one of them.

again there’s a difference between what you’d want on a record and what works in the room

You probably made better tips! Do they tip bands in England?

You don't have to be a legend level soloist. I sure ain't. It ain't how long you make it, it's how you make it long!

Bring the band down. Bring your guitar volume down. Ride one or two notes in a unique rhythm. Ask everyone if they are having a good time. Ask them to clap for the band. Bring the band way way down to as quiet as they can get. Bring the band way back up. Bring your guitar way back up. Ask if you can sit at someone's table in the audience and entertain them directly. Walk on the bar. Sit at the bar and hold your head in your hand like you are real depressed and hammer a note and slow the hammer way down. When I was feeling salty downtown on dirty 6th sometimes I would just announce right before I started that if you don't like blues, "GET OUT!". Most people would stay because now they are interested in what's happening and anyone who doesn't like blues would leave, therefore there were no angry pentatonic hating guitarists left in the audience.

Not long before covid I was with an informal group of guys running a blues jam down south of here. I was on my game pulling off a bunch of what I thought were pretty slick guitar moves during the closing set. I was stealing the show but a guy who is not particularly amazing on a guitar but is able to land a front flip off a 3 foot high stage holding a vintage Gretsch White Falcon went for it. The crowd went nuts. I was forgotten the moment his feet hit the ground, lol. Entertainment wins crowds and money more than guitar chops. I learned that lesson that day, big time. That was master showmanship. Buddy is a master showman like that. So is Shorty, who was known for backflips in his early years I am told. I have had the fortune of working with a few Shorty alumni during my time down here.. A good wireless unit pays for itself quickly if you are gigging a lot but a 50 foot cable is cheaper......

[pamosmusic]

Oh lord, please don't let me be mis-understood...!

You were close, it was Buddy Guy, although I have seen Guitar Shorty and others do the same thing. I love it. I was just pointing out that there are others who don't. I just don't criticize people on forums. It is too hard to explain in the written word. Now if we are talking in person, that is another matter it if is worth the time.

I saw Buddy Guy do the same thing. That show was a blast.

[Jazzjourney4Eva]

When I was feeling salty downtown on dirty 6th sometimes I would just announce right before I started that if you don't like blues, "GET OUT!". Most people would stay because now they are interested in what's happening and anyone who doesn't like blues would leave, therefore there were no angry pentatonic hating guitarists left in the audience. ...

Dirty 6th. Lol.

[BreckerFan]

I have mixed feelings on Gambale. As someone who has pretty completely adopted the rules of Gamble style picking, including a lot of his 3-1 patterns for arpeggios and pentatonics, I have to give him a lot of credit for coming up with a pretty complete system for thinking about and playing the guitar. And I love the effect he creates when he weaves it all together, it's incredibly fluid and saxophone-istic. I still need to sit down and transcribe some of the 4ths-y pentatonic stuff he does. I think his method book should be a lot more heavily used by jazz guitarists because it opens a lot of possibilities.

That being said, I've never been a huge fan of his straight ahead playing. Maybe I'm being to narrow, but he always sounds to me like a fusion player trying play straight ahead rather than a convincing straight ahead player. Not to imply any lack on his part, his career was in the fusion world and that's shaped his sound. And I love his fusion playing.

I also think his claim to have invented sweep picking is a little overblown. There are plenty of examples of guitarists sweeping before him (Jim Hall on You'd Be So Nice to Come Home To from the Concierto album comes to mind). What Gamble did was systematize the concept. Which again, I think is brilliant, and I've benefited from immensely. But I feel like he's very quick to describe himself as the inventor of sweep picking, and it's always kind of irked me.

But I'm just some guy on a forum so

[Christian Miller]

I think a lot of people would give the credit to Chuck Wayne for systemising an economy approach in the 50s (?). There’s always been pockets of economy picking in jazz guitar. Django did it for instance, but true two way economy picking is really an electric guitar technique.

[Christian Miller]

You probably made better tips! Do they tip bands in England?

You don't have to be a legend level soloist. I sure ain't. It ain't how long you make it, it's how you make it long!

Bring the band down. Bring your guitar volume down. Ride one or two notes in a unique rhythm. Ask everyone if they are having a good time. Ask them to clap for the band. Bring the band way way down to as quiet as they can get. Bring the band way back up. Bring your guitar way back up. Ask if you can sit at someone's table in the audience and entertain them directly. Walk on the bar. Sit at the bar and hold your head in your hand like you are real depressed and hammer a note and slow the hammer way down. When I was feeling salty downtown on dirty 6th sometimes I would just announce right before I started that if you don't like blues, "GET OUT!". Most people would stay because now they are interested in what's happening and anyone who doesn't like blues would leave, therefore there were no angry pentatonic hating guitarists left in the audience.

Not long before covid I was with an informal group of guys running a blues jam down south of here. I was on my game pulling off a bunch of what I thought were pretty slick guitar moves during the closing set. I was stealing the show but a guy who is not particularly amazing on a guitar but is able to land a front flip off a 3 foot high stage holding a vintage Gretsch White Falcon went for it. The crowd went nuts. I was forgotten the moment his feet hit the ground, lol. Entertainment wins crowds and money more than guitar chops. I learned that lesson that day, big time. That was master showmanship. Buddy is a master showman like that. So is Shorty, who was known for backflips in his early years I am told. I have had the fortune of working with a few Shorty alumni during my time down here.. A good wireless unit pays for itself quickly if you are gigging a lot but a 50 foot cable is cheaper......

Wireless is pretty cheap now. I have a dongle set I picked up for like 100gbp and it works great. I need more mobility on some gigs and while and happy banging it out on an acoustic for the old school jazz stuff this band leader likes the guitar to be a bit louder so a wireless and portable amp set up works fairly well. It’s also great for education, when I’m working with a whole class.

Yes, but entertainment, showmanship. This is all good stuff. Really the horn players are the lead guitarists of pre war jazz though, they can do all that showboating haha. Crowd surfing etc.

[kris]

This a great stuff for practising!!!!!:

[CliffR]

I remember that video from a few years ago (not the RockSmith part....) That's really tough (for me at least).

[GuyBoden]

I think a lot of people would give the credit to Chuck Wayne for systemising an economy approach in the 50s (?). There’s always been pockets of economy picking in jazz guitar. Django did it for instance, but true two way economy picking is really an electric guitar technique.

I'd guess, that the so called "Economy picking" could be a natural picking style for many untrained pickers.

I've used "Economy picking" since being a very young teenager, without realising I was, until I had a few lessons and a teacher told me.

[BreckerFan]

I'm not very familiar with Chuck Wayne, so correct me if I'm wrong, but perhaps Gambale's innovation was in refingering arpeggios and even pentatonic scales to exploit sweeping motions. He's much more open to stretching the left hand to facilitate the right hand motion than even other modern economy pickers like Adam Rogers.

[supersoul]

Frank Gambale & Allan Holdsworth Truth in Shredding is a pretty cool album. They play off eachother well. It has two Wayne Shorter tunes. I dare say that there's not much actual shredding involved.

[James W]

Strangely enough it's Gambale's 'smooth fusion' stuff I'm not so keen on - on the basis of his Stella, I prefer his straight-ahead playing.

[Christian Miller]

I'm not very familiar with Chuck Wayne, so correct me if I'm wrong, but perhaps Gambale's innovation was in refingering arpeggios and even pentatonic scales to exploit sweeping motions. He's much more open to stretching the left hand to facilitate the right hand motion than even other modern economy pickers like Adam Rogers.

Thats a good point and why I referred to economy picking as I see that as an umbrella for a number of approaches that include Frank’s sweep picking. Tbh I don’t know enough about the Chuck Wayne school to comment. I’m sure others here could chip in. He did have a specific system of left hand fingering.

Most players use slurs to deal with economy direction changes. I think iirc Gambale doesn’t use them favouring specific fingerings with even numbers of notes for direction changes right? Although I believe they are some violations of his own rule (there usually are, music is more messy.)

[Christian Miller]

I'd guess, that the so called "Economy picking" could be a natural picking style for many untrained pickers.

I've used "Economy picking" since being a very young teenager, without realising I was, until I had a few lessons and a teacher told me.

me too. Later I learned gypsy picking, and now increasingly I’m back to my old ways on electric.

It works! tbh I’m glad I was never taught technique because quite honestly I think most of the guitar teachers when I was learning had much of a clue about technique and would have messed up what came naturally for me. With economy of course the big problem is rushing. 90% of economy pickers are prone to rushing. Frank doesn’t rush (much).

I was dimly aware alternate picking was a good idea, so practiced that when playing slow, but when I played fast economy all the way. Of course I rushed like crazy back then, but I was fast!

you can learn to economy pick in an afternoon, but it takes a long time to make it sound good.

[Christian Miller]

This a great stuff for practising!!!!!:

what level is this on guitar hero?