He's human after all! (Sort of)

**Christian Miller** · 10-26-2022, 02:08 PM

This is a recording I hadn't heard before, and it's interesting because - well, Bird seems flummoxed by the bridge. He is human after all!

However, by the third pass he's well on the way to getting it. Quick!

Really interesting recording The learning process documented.

I suspect he didn't really know this tune and was called to sit in with little notice.

**SandChannel** · 10-26-2022, 06:06 PM

Sounds like someone is shouting up to him... or he is getting distracted by something. You are right though - he sounds human at first. Then, he starts to sound like Bird!

**SOLR** · 10-26-2022, 06:29 PM

Originally Posted by Christian Miller

This is a recording I hadn't heard before, and it's interesting because - well, Bird seems flummoxed by the bridge. He is human after all!

However, by the third pass he's well on the way to getting it. Quick!

Really interesting recording The learning process documented.

I suspect he didn't really know this tune and was called to sit in with little notice.

a known story

S

**djg** · 10-26-2022, 06:30 PM

shit happens

**Bobby Timmons** · 10-26-2022, 08:31 PM

Bird could probably play some stuff besides 1 note and then silence even if he wasn't familiar with the changes lol. My guess is he was drunk and/or on drugs.

**sgcim** · 10-26-2022, 08:41 PM

I write a lot of arrangements of tunes that no one's ever heard of (including my own)and I've heard the best players around completely flop when they try to blow on them the first time.

A great tenor player, who has blown the hell out of every solo he's taken, tried to solo on one of my tunes, didn't play one right note on his solo (it is a difficult tune), and just collapsed back into his seat in shame.

Then another tenor player in another band I play in tried to play a solo on a George Russell tune I arranged, and same thing- he didn't play one right note. I hate the guy cause he's an ego maniac young asshat, but I did tell him it was based on the changes to a well known standard, but I guess he didn't know that standard either.

Then I played it with the first tenor player I mentioned, and played the schlitz out of it, because he probably knew the standard that it was based on.
It was kind of ironic that the young guy was a former student of the older guy, but he hated the kid's guts, too! LOL!

Zoot Sims said he was not capable of playing on a set of changes to a song that he didn't know.

**SOLR** · 10-26-2022, 08:53 PM

Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith

My guess is he was drunk and/or on drugs.

He apparently was not..read the story

S

**Bobby Timmons** · 10-26-2022, 09:01 PM

Oh, where does it say his mistake was due to him just getting hosed and not him getting hosed and being on drugs? Sorry, I'm not reading for a half hour. :P

**sgcim** · 10-26-2022, 09:05 PM

Lee Konitz (Mr. Spontaneous) said he heard Bird backstage practicing ideas that he had heard him play on other tunes. He should have sued Bird for being a human being.

**SOLR** · 10-26-2022, 09:40 PM

Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith

Oh, where does it say his mistake was due to him just getting hosed and not him getting hosed and being on drugs? Sorry, I'm not reading for a half hour. :P

story: except for JS

JW: Based on the recording of Four Brothers, there was always talk that Bird was high. Was he?
DH: No way. He was home in Kansas City visiting

his mother, and whenever he was home he never got high. Bird simply didn’t know the changes to Four Brothers. He was standing in front of the band without music soloing. After the bridge, he stumbled on the notes. Same on the second chorus. But by the third, he had it down. Listen to what he did with How High the Moon and Lemon Drop. Amazing.

S

**Bobby Timmons** · 10-26-2022, 09:52 PM

Still not really factual..

**Christian Miller** · 10-27-2022, 03:03 AM

I think the really interesting thing about this recording is not so much that he obviously doesn’t know the bridge, but that he learns it really quickly on the stand and how he learns it.

**Christian Miller** · 10-27-2022, 03:04 AM

Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith

Bird could probably play some stuff besides 1 note and then silence even if he wasn't familiar with the changes lol. My guess is he was drunk and/or on drugs.

he may have decided it was a better policy to listen to the changes rather than play a load of wrong shit

**Bobby Timmons** · 10-27-2022, 04:33 AM

Could be. They sound like easy changes tho. It sounds like the bridge to taking a chance on love. Just 2-5s.

**SOLR** · 10-27-2022, 05:42 PM

Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith

Still not really factual..

HUH.... This is from the interview with Dick Hafer the other sax player on the same recording session sitting next to Bird .....I don't know which other source you'd like in order to corroborate that "fact"

S

**Bobby Timmons** · 10-27-2022, 07:09 PM

It doesn't seem like proof to me some guy saying Bird didn't use in his home town. Yeah, no drug abusers who die at 34 would ever use in the vicinity of their Ma. Sure.

**Litterick** · 10-27-2022, 07:27 PM

I would be more inclined to believe a witness than a supposition.

**Bobby Timmons** · 10-27-2022, 07:38 PM

I'm not trying to prove it to you, it's my opinion.

**Reg** · 10-28-2022, 09:43 AM

Man Jimmy... for a guy who can hardly play you can sure dish out the shit

**Bobby Timmons** · 10-28-2022, 11:13 AM

Wtf are you even talking about? I can play fine. And the post literally before yours, I said it's my opinion. A reasonably founded one. Bird was known for being an addict and died at 34 because of it. Addicts use daily..

**sgcim** · 10-28-2022, 04:51 PM

This reminds me of another fascinating story with the Herman band that I read about somewhere.
The Herman band was written for three tenors and one Baritone, so Bird was probably sight reading the part AND transposing.
They were doing a gig in Chicago, and one of the tenor players couldn't make the gig. They heard Phil Woods was in town, so they called him to sub. When they reached him by phone, he was sitting in his hotel room getting plastered, but he did the gig anyway.
Word was that he sight read the part and transposed it to alto, played the schist out of the solos- all while he was drunk!

**Christian Miller** · 10-28-2022, 04:56 PM

What makes you think Bird had a part?

i mean it’s possible, but I think it’s more likely that it was the standard sax section and he was just on to blow, no?

**sgcim** · 10-28-2022, 05:11 PM

Originally Posted by Christian Miller

What makes you think Bird had a part?

i mean it’s possible, but I think it’s more likely that it was the standard sax section and he was just on to blow, no?

They didn't use a standard sax section if you read my post.

**Christian Miller** · 10-28-2022, 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by sgcim

They didn't use a standard sax section if you read my post.

I meant the regular line up. Given the instrumentation, that’s got to be the case (and confirmed by the personnel listing fwiw.) yeah so bird was the guest soloist … so maybe he didn’t have a chart at all?

I mean it’s a very stock A section he’d have heard the changes no problem. II7 V I then turnarounds basically …. He might have heard the tune on the radio a few times, agreed to busk it, but forgot that the bridge gets a little twisty.

it’s something I could imagine myself doing lol.

**wintermoon** · 10-28-2022, 05:23 PM

Roy Caton, Don Fagerquist, Johnny Macombe, Doug Mettome (tp) Jerry Dorn, Urbie Green, Fred Lewis (tb) Charlie Parker (as) Woody Herman (as, cl, cond) Dick Hafer, Bill Perkins, Kenny Pinson (ts) Sam Staff (bars) Dave McKenna (p) Lawrence “Red” Wooten (b) Sonny Igoe (d)