Where to start with Sal Salvador?

[joelf]

I only heard him once. I think it was at SUNY Purchase, NY. He was older and his playing was pretty uninspiring. Could have been his age.
Now I saw Linc Chamberlain play at a small club in Port Chester and he was an early influence on me. Those were some out jams.


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Among the CT guitar players in the '70s there was sort of a division: Salvador students/Chamberlain students. There was this guy Tim Breen, from Westport, an unbelievable player, maybe one of the most thrilling ever. He never did his own project recording and 'personal problems' curtailed his career and led to his demise at 56. But ask Adam Nussbaum---hell, ask George Benson, his hero who almost cried when he heard Breen. Anyway, Tim was a Chamberlain guy and always talked about how much he learned from him...

[Stringswinger]

I hate to be the wet blanket here. I know a lot of people studied w/him in CT. I feel this way after hearing him on these tracks and Jazz on a Summer's Day:

Competent; nice sound; knew the vocab; got the job done----but pretty ordinary and even undistinguished as a soloist. His swing feel was OK but kind of square and near corny, and he was pretty bland and uninteresting note choice-wise, especially compared to the players mentioned on this thread. Just too symmetrical and predictable and he never went anywhere that perked my ears up.

Which is not to be disrespectful to the OP or Salvador or say the man was a poor musician---not even close to that. He was a pro and I respect that. But the other players mentioned here (as soloists) were in a different class---and so were Joe Puma and Dick Garcia, 2 other white players (meaning they played with mostly white bands, not by choice but by social and hierarchal circumstances) from that period...

Jazz guitar is pretty much a subjective thing. Ed Benson used to send me CD's to review for Just Jazz Guitar. If I did not like a cat's playing, I just sent the CD back to Ed. He would send it someone else to review and a glowing review of that CD would show up in the magazine. Some men like blondes, some like redheads etc...

I like Sal's playing OK, but I admit that he was no Johnny Smith or Tal Farlow. Neither am I or presumably, any of you who are reading this post, I have met many jazz musicians, guitarists and non guitarists, who are not fond of the playing of Joe Pass. I have a hard time comprehending that. Don't they hear what I am hearing? IMO, it doesn't get any better than Joe Pass (with the possible exception of Wes Montgomery). Like I say it is a subjective thing. I am glad that enough people like MY playing enough that I have been able to make a modest living playing jazz guitar full time over the last 20 years or so. And I am no Sal Salvador.

Joe Puma? Great player. When I was at NYU in the 70's, I used to see him do a guitar duo with Chuck Wayne at a small club on the Westside called Strykers. No cover, just buy a drink and enjoy the music. I saw Chet Baker and Lee Konitz at that club as well. New Years Eve would have all four of those cats playing and the room was not full. I was there every New Years to catch that music. Other people were not inspired enough to come see them play I suppose.....

[joelf]

It's all good. He can play and different strokes.

Bless all good players...

[paul.trapanese]

Among the CT guitar players in the '70s there was sort of a division: Salvador students/Chamberlain students. There was this guy Tim Breen, from Westport, an unbelievable player, maybe one of the most thrilling ever. He never did his own project recording and 'personal problems' curtailed his career and led to his demise at 56. But ask Adam Nussbaum---hell, ask George Benson, his hero who almost cried when he heard Breen. Anyway, Tim was a Chamberlain guy and always talked about how much he learned from him...

Never heard of Tim. Any YouTube stuff up?
I played a gig or two in Westport around 1980. Lots of players coming out of UB.


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[sgcim]

Autobiography? I thought he didn't live to finish it. I'd LOVE to read THAT! Phil didn't hold back from or about ANYTHING...

He had written it years ago, so there's nothing from the last five years or so of his life. It took Jill, Ted Panken (who helped him write it), and some other people to get it published after PW's death.
He had mellowed out in his old age, so he's noticeably restrained about about a few things he could have really let go on.

There's no mention of the time that Wynton publicly put him down through a mic on a Jazz Cruise that his daughter, Kim Parker happened to be on.
She let WM have it, and he publicly apologized for his idiotic and erroneous (what else is new) statements.
Similarly, there's no mention of the death threats members of the Oliver Nelson big band sent to ON and PW about ON hiring a white lead alto player for his band. ON stood up to them all, and even wrote an essay defending PW.
PW took the high road on the whole Black/white thing in jazz, and doesn't say a word on the subject.
But he speaks pretty freely on other things.

[sgcim]

I only heard him once. I think it was at SUNY Purchase, NY. He was older and his playing was pretty uninspiring. Could have been his age.
Now I saw Linc Chamberlain play at a small club in Port Chester and he was an early influence on me. Those were some out jams.


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Yeah, I'd stay away from the last albums he made with his band, Crystal Image. You could tell there was something wrong; whether it was age or health.

[joelf]

Never heard of Tim. Any YouTube stuff up?
I played a gig or two in Westport around 1980. Lots of players coming out of UB.


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Nothing on youtube, far as I know. And he was in NY by '75...

[joelf]

He had written it years ago, so there's nothing from the last five years or so of his life. It took Jill, Ted Panken (who helped him write it), and some other people to get it published after PW's death.
He had mellowed out in his old age, so he's noticeably restrained about about a few things he could have really let go on.

There's no mention of the time that Wynton publicly put him down through a mic on a Jazz Cruise that his daughter, Kim Parker happened to be on.
She let WM have it, and he publicly apologized for his idiotic and erroneous (what else is new) statements.
Similarly, there's no mention of the death threats members of the Oliver Nelson big band sent to ON and PW about ON hiring a white lead alto player for his band. ON stood up to them all, and even wrote an essay defending PW.
PW took the high road on the whole Black/white thing in jazz, and doesn't say a word on the subject.
But he speaks pretty freely on other things.

Yeah, he called himself the 'Mellow Mick'---that's how he signed his emails.

Who's the publisher? Can I get it from his old site, or Jill? We're still in touch occasionally.

(BTW Wynton's mellowed too---was a perfect gent the 2 times we met. And he told cats in the band 'I said some stupid s%^t when I was young'. Everyone grows up, or should.)

[sgcim]

Yeah, he called himself the 'Mellow Mick'---that's how he signed his emails.

Who's the publisher? Can I get it from his old site, or Jill? We're still in touch occasionally.

(BTW Wynton's mellowed too---was a perfect gent the 2 times we met. And he told cats in the band 'I said some stupid s%^t when I was young'. Everyone grows up, or should.)

They found a small music press called Cymbal Press. You can order the book from cymbalpress.com, or get it from the old PW website.
They're even selling that hat he used to wear! It's $24 paperback, $42 Hardcover. I got the paperback.

[sgcim]

Jazz guitar is pretty much a subjective thing. Ed Benson used to send me CD's to review for Just Jazz Guitar. If I did not like a cat's playing, I just sent the CD back to Ed. He would send it someone else to review and a glowing review of that CD would show up in the magazine. Some men like blondes, some like redheads etc...

I like Sal's playing OK, but I admit that he was no Johnny Smith or Tal Farlow. Neither am I or presumably, any of you who are reading this post, I have met many jazz musicians, guitarists and non guitarists, who are not fond of the playing of Joe Pass. I have a hard time comprehending that. Don't they hear what I am hearing? IMO, it doesn't get any better than Joe Pass (with the possible exception of Wes Montgomery). Like I say it is a subjective thing. I am glad that enough people like MY playing enough that I have been able to make a modest living playing jazz guitar full time over the last 20 years or so. And I am no Sal Salvador.

Joe Puma? Great player. When I was at NYU in the 70's, I used to see him do a guitar duo with Chuck Wayne at a small club on the Westside called Strykers. No cover, just buy a drink and enjoy the music. I saw Chet Baker and Lee Konitz at that club as well. New Years Eve would have all four of those cats playing and the room was not full. I was there every New Years to catch that music. Other people were not inspired enough to come see them play I suppose.....

New year's Eve was always dead as far as jazz was concerned. People went out to party on NYE, not to listen to jazz.
I still contend that there was a real jazz Renaissance in the 70s, especially in jazz guitar. I can't even count the times I saw Chuck Wayne and Joe Puma's guitar duo live, and then Joe had a steady gig at Gregory's for years. Bucky Pizzarelli and George Barnes had a fantastic guitar duo that I saw as many times as I saw Chuck and Joe's. Joe Pass hit the scene and literally set it on fire. There were the Great Guitars of Jazz with Barney Kessel, Herb Ellis and Charlie Byrd. Kenny Burrell was playing all over the place. Tal Farlow and Jimmy Raney came out of retirement. Tiny Grimes played at The Guitar Concert at Town Hall along with Chuck Wayne's group, John McLaughlin and his wife came out in robes, Joe Beck had a trio. And all these places were packed. I saw Sam Brown twice in one week, once with Joe Farrell and once at Kenny Burrell's club, The Guitar. I saw the Jim Hall /Ron Carter Duo so often, I knew their entire set list. Harry Leahey joined Phil Woods' group.Ted Dunbar was playing around the city. Atilla Zoller was teaching for free as part of the Jazz Interactions Program.I saw Pat Martino live at The Bottom Line.

[joelf]

They found a small music press called Cymbal Press. You can order the book from cymbalpress.com, or get it from the old PW website.
They're even selling that hat he used to wear! It's $24 paperback, $42 Hardcover. I got the paperback.

I like paper hats...

[joelf]

New year's Eve was always dead as far as jazz was concerned. People went out to party on NYE, not to listen to jazz.
I still contend that there was a real jazz Renaissance in the 70s, especially in jazz guitar. I can't even count the times I saw Chuck Wayne and Joe Puma's guitar duo live, and then Joe had a steady gig at Gregory's for years. Bucky Pizzarelli and George Barnes had a fantastic guitar duo that I saw as many times as I saw Chuck and Joe's. Joe Pass hit the scene and literally set it on fire. There were the Great Guitars of Jazz with Barney Kessel, Herb Ellis and Charlie Byrd. Kenny Burrell was playing all over the place. Tal Farlow and Jimmy Raney came out of retirement. Tiny Grimes played at The Guitar Concert at Town Hall along with Chuck Wayne's group, John McLaughlin and his wife came out in robes, Joe Beck had a trio. And all these places were packed. I saw Sam Brown twice in one week, once with Joe Farrell and once at Kenny Burrell's club, The Guitar. I saw the Jim Hall /Ron Carter Duo so often, I knew their entire set list. Harry Leahey joined Phil Woods' group.Ted Dunbar was playing around the city. Atilla Zoller was teaching for free as part of the Jazz Interactions Program.I saw Pat Martino live at The Bottom Line.

Chuck told me about that concert---he had gotten over a broken arm and hated his playing on the recording that came out. Chuck & Joe---BOY do I have stories! I knew Sam through Jim Silberstein. We played once when I was 21 and didn't know s^^t. That was a sad story---I watched him go to pieces...

[Stringswinger]

New year's Eve was always dead as far as jazz was concerned. People went out to party on NYE, not to listen to jazz.
I still contend that there was a real jazz Renaissance in the 70s, especially in jazz guitar. I can't even count the times I saw Chuck Wayne and Joe Puma's guitar duo live, and then Joe had a steady gig at Gregory's for years. Bucky Pizzarelli and George Barnes had a fantastic guitar duo that I saw as many times as I saw Chuck and Joe's. Joe Pass hit the scene and literally set it on fire. There were the Great Guitars of Jazz with Barney Kessel, Herb Ellis and Charlie Byrd. Kenny Burrell was playing all over the place. Tal Farlow and Jimmy Raney came out of retirement. Tiny Grimes played at The Guitar Concert at Town Hall along with Chuck Wayne's group, John McLaughlin and his wife came out in robes, Joe Beck had a trio. And all these places were packed. I saw Sam Brown twice in one week, once with Joe Farrell and once at Kenny Burrell's club, The Guitar. I saw the Jim Hall /Ron Carter Duo so often, I knew their entire set list. Harry Leahey joined Phil Woods' group.Ted Dunbar was playing around the city. Atilla Zoller was teaching for free as part of the Jazz Interactions Program.I saw Pat Martino live at The Bottom Line.

I saw Tiny Grimes play many times in those days at the West End Cafe. Yep the 70's in NYC was an amazing time to be in an amazing place. Glad I was there.

[joelf]

I missed Tiny---Ray Macchiarolla & James Chirillo were luckier than me. I started my 'big time' (stop SNICKERING, MFs!) career at the West End ca 1984, with George Kelly & the Jazz Sultans. Percy France, a great man, recommended me. I'd been sitting in w/him. His regular guitarist was the late Joel Perry. Percy's group and myself had both been fired from a Big Joe Turner gig at Tramp's in '81 by Doc Pomus---a mean SOB. Percy supposedly had stuck up for one of his guys who was smoking reefer on the stand.

The West End, when I started going up to hang & sit in, was a wonderful scene! I got to play with Ram Ramirez; Jimmie Lewis; Oliver Jackson; Percy---and who-all else I don't remember. These were radio broadcasts and are archived somewhere at WKCR. George's group had Benny Powell; Virgil Jones; Norris Turney; Richard Wyands; Peck Morrison---and the 'token', nervous; green; Jewish moi. He was promoting a recording of music by Don Redman he'd made (Bucky Pizzarelli made the date, but didn't want the lower-paying gig. When I met him years later he didn't even remember the date, that's how busy he always was) and a cameo in a Robin Williams movie, Moscow on the Hudson.

I believe I finally heard Tiny at Barry Harris's Jazz Cultural Theater---another amazing scene I was so lucky to fall into as a young player). I remember he had a LOUD (and IMO unmusical) drummer. The bass player---pretty sure it was Hal Dodson---was drug, but told me that that's what Tiny wanted, so he suffered through it.

George appropriated Tiny's (or someone else's) sign-off song. The lights would dim on the last note---short ending:

We hope you liked our music
We did the best we could
And if you heard your favorite song
We hope that it was good

We'll be back tomorrow (or in a little while)
Everybody have a drink
We'll have one and you'll have one
It's later---than you think...

[2bornot2bop]

No one commented so I’ll chime in.

Who’s the woman at the beginning in the high heals, hat, and blue dress?

That’s the great Broadway dancer Frances Davis. Yes, Miles Davis’ wife from the late 50’s until the early 60’s.

She’s also featured in the 2019 Netflix documentary on Miles Davis, The Birth Of The Cool.